Are sprint runs too small?

[anycal]

....

Regardless, the answer to this thread is the same as it has been and always will be:

Collectors will say NO, low volume means increased value and higher resale value.

Users will say YES, high volume means I won't have to pay what the collectors or flippers want just for a knife I want to use.

I don't disagree. But then there is everyone else in between. Those who use their collection, or those who want to $upplement their hobby. And various other combinations of customers. But at the end of the day, we are all Spyderco customers.

And there is Spyderco - the business that allows all this to happen. A company with a mission, goals, capacity, competition. Sprinkled with passion. And growth. And to what end? Which group are they focusing on? Who do they cater to?

I don't know. Things are complicated. I am just an enthusiast who adapted this knife thing as a hobby, based on something which has always been part of me from a young age - using a knife. And although I am balls deep in it today, things can change tomorrow. So if I miss one I really wanted, I don't sweat it. I don't blame Spyderco or those who managed to get one or two of the one I missed.

And I am few IPAs in, so going to hang up now...

[RustyIron]

Maybe it's best to step back, take a breath and ask yourself why you're getting upset. If you're a "collector," surely you can appreciate the uncommonness of each particular sprint model. If you're a "user," you need to ask yourself if this particular sprint model is so much better than everything else that you absolutely must have it. If the answer is "yes," then just ask around. I'm sure someone will sell you theirs.

P.S.
I had a Native 5 G10 lined up this afternoon, and when it was time to finish up the sale, I asked myself if I really needed this REX 45. The answer was no. Someone else surely has it by now.

[araneae]

It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).

1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

No, still 1200 pieces, just significantly easier to get. Are we debating how limited something is or how in demand it is because they're two different things. Right now toilet paper is in high demand but not because it's limited, the quantity never changed but demand did. Sprints aren't any harder to get because they're more limited, they aren't any more limited than they've ever been because supply hasn't changed. They may be more in demand, or more specifically more accessible, but that doesn't make them more limited.

I already stated that "limited" was perhaps too vague, you seem stuck on your interpretation of it. I have changed the title. Supply is too small, demand is up, sprints are what I would say are often very difficult to obtain. I think perhaps Spyderco should consider increasing the quantities, so more knife users can get them at MAP price and use them instead of the flippers who are more interested in using them as instant high yield investments.

Maybe it's best to step back, take a breath and ask yourself why you're getting upset. If you're a "collector," surely you can appreciate the uncommonness of each particular sprint model. If you're a "user," you need to ask yourself if this particular sprint model is so much better than everything else that you absolutely must have it. If the answer is "yes," then just ask around. I'm sure someone will sell you theirs.

P.S.
I had a Native 5 G10 lined up this afternoon, and when it was time to finish up the sale, I asked myself if I really needed this REX 45. The answer was no. Someone else surely has it by now.

I'm a user/accumulator who appreciates trying out different steels. It's not a question of can I buy one, it's can I buy one and not pay an inflated price to a flipper who sees no value in the knife except an easy way to make quick cash. Is the knife worth MAP? I think so, but I am unwilling to pay someone $175-200 for the knife they bought yesterday for $122. I have neither the disposable income nor the desire to pay flippers.

[SpyderGrill]

Im new to all these sprint runs. The way I see it, not every kid on the soccer team deserves a medal. If your there at the right time for an exsclusive great, if you miss out, I hope you get one of the next ones.

Thats the fun of the chase, I was forunate to get a couple I wanted,, missed a few but what the heck. Another will come soon,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I hope they dont change, will take the fun and special feeling of owning a sprint away

everybodys entitled to one,,,,,,,, no more special knife,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Wartstein]

Is it time to look at numbers on the sprint runs and re-evaluate?

I'm pretty sure in a recent thread with a similar topic, Sal said they were going to look at increasing sprint run quantities to address the problem you're having. That was likely too recent to have affected the size of the REX45 runs, but hopefully larger runs of popular models/steels will help make them more easily acquired for upcoming runs.

I can recall that too.

/ I am lucky in that the only sprint runs I was really totally interested in so far were the burnt orange HAP 40 Stretch 1 and Endura. Both I could find (one even new from an online store, the other used) long after they actually came to the market... guess some people did not like the handle color (I certainly do!)

In the "sprint run scenario" it is good for me that I am not really into steels, but totally fine with "just" S30V or VG10, since most sprint runs are mainly about steel variants

[SpyderGrill]

Maybe it's best to step back, take a breath and ask yourself why you're getting upset. If you're a "collector," surely you can appreciate the uncommonness of each particular sprint model. If you're a "user," you need to ask yourself if this particular sprint model is so much better than everything else that you absolutely must have it. If the answer is "yes," then just ask around. I'm sure someone will sell you theirs.

P.S.
I had a Native 5 G10 lined up this afternoon, and when it was time to finish up the sale, I asked myself if I really needed this REX 45. The answer was no. Someone else surely has it by now.
[/quote

Great answer,with all due respect, I was trying to buy the lightweight, that website would not take my CC for what ever reason, a beer or 2 later and I bought the G10 version, I really didnt want to spend $52 more on the G10 but what the ****, its on the way

[Pancake]

It's just....I don't know what to think about this whole topic.
I like sprint runs, would like to own one, but the question I ask myself, what are the benefits of that sprint run to me? Like, if you dull your S30V PM2 in one day, then something like a CPM10V makes sense for you.
But for the most time, I still have my own quite ironic opinion on this: I am not a collector, I am a user sentence. If you are a user, there are more important things then steel and handle colour....

[Evil D]

It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).

1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

No, still 1200 pieces, just significantly easier to get. Are we debating how limited something is or how in demand it is because they're two different things. Right now toilet paper is in high demand but not because it's limited, the quantity never changed but demand did. Sprints aren't any harder to get because they're more limited, they aren't any more limited than they've ever been because supply hasn't changed. They may be more in demand, or more specifically more accessible, but that doesn't make them more limited.




Regardless, the answer to this thread is the same as it has been and always will be:

Collectors will say NO, low volume means increased value and higher resale value.

Users will say YES, high volume means I won't have to pay what the collectors or flippers want just for a knife I want to use.

The same 1200 pieces can no longer meet the demand. Just like one dollar is still one dollar, but that one dollar was worth more 22 years ago. The sprint run quantity doesn't seem to have risen to meet the increase in number of buyers. Demand is greatly outstripping supply for most of these sprints.

I'm not disagreeing here, I guess I'm splitting hairs. It's a wording thing. Something isn't more limited by demand, it's limited by quantity and quantity hasn't changed. Sprints aren't "more limited", they're just in higher demand or easier to get, which causes them to sell out quicker.

Kinda wish I hadn't commented on that now it's gotten way bigger than it should've lol

[bearfacedkiller]

I am not a fan of the 400 piece runs of exclusives.

[araneae]

1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

No, still 1200 pieces, just significantly easier to get. Are we debating how limited something is or how in demand it is because they're two different things. Right now toilet paper is in high demand but not because it's limited, the quantity never changed but demand did. Sprints aren't any harder to get because they're more limited, they aren't any more limited than they've ever been because supply hasn't changed. They may be more in demand, or more specifically more accessible, but that doesn't make them more limited.




Regardless, the answer to this thread is the same as it has been and always will be:

Collectors will say NO, low volume means increased value and higher resale value.

Users will say YES, high volume means I won't have to pay what the collectors or flippers want just for a knife I want to use.

The same 1200 pieces can no longer meet the demand. Just like one dollar is still one dollar, but that one dollar was worth more 22 years ago. The sprint run quantity doesn't seem to have risen to meet the increase in number of buyers. Demand is greatly outstripping supply for most of these sprints.

I'm not disagreeing here, I guess I'm splitting hairs. It's a wording thing. Something isn't more limited by demand, it's limited by quantity and quantity hasn't changed. Sprints aren't "more limited", they're just in higher demand or easier to get, which causes them to sell out quicker.

Kinda wish I hadn't commented on that now it's gotten way bigger than it should've lol

It's a wording thing I changed because you are misinterpreting my intent, and you're still on about it.

[Evil D]

It's a wording thing I changed because you are misinterpreting my intent, and you're still on about it.

Whoa, I'm not on about anything I'm just having a conversation with the 6 or so people who quoted me. Should I just ignore them?

Man just forget I was ever here geesh.

[Sumdumguy]

It's a wording thing I changed because you are misinterpreting my intent, and you're still on about it.

Whoa, I'm not on about anything I'm just having a conversation with the 6 or so people who quoted me. Should I just ignore them?

Man just forget I was ever here geesh.

I don't get the logic people draw from these days.

If the population is 10,000, 2+2=4

If the population is 20,000, 2+2=4

The size of the buying pool does not change the value of a number, that's nonsense...

What's next, "I feel like a woman, therefore I am."?
Oh, wait...

[curlyhairedboy]

I try my best to not let scarcity motivate me. In a perfect world everyone who wanted a Crucarta Shaman would be able to get one, and the fact that only a few of us did does not make me happy.

I don't get pleasure from other people's unhappiness.

So put me down for supporting larger sprint runs.

[RustyIron]

I'm a user/accumulator who appreciates trying out different steels. It's not a question of can I buy one, it's can I buy one and not pay an inflated price to a flipper who sees no value in the knife except an easy way to make quick cash. Is the knife worth MAP? I think so, but I am unwilling to pay someone $175-200 for the knife they bought yesterday for $122. I have neither the disposable income nor the desire to pay flippers.

So here's a hypothetical question. Suppose there's this guy, let's call him... Dusty Steel. When the new sprints were announced, he got all wound up and decided it would be a good opportunity to try out a couple Spyderco models he was curious about. We'll call them Model X and Model Y. Then he started second guessing himself, as there was Model Z that was really his favorite Spyderco, but it was too late to order one. And Dusty was sad.

Then an opportunity arose where Dusty was able to bag a sprint flavored Model Z. He loved the knife and life was once again sunshine and lollypops. But there is the lingering question about the preordered Model X and Model Y. Should he take delivery of the order, hoping he'll like both knives? Should he cancel the order? If he gets the new knives and they don't sing to him, what should he do? Should he banish them to the Drawer of Forgotten Knives? Should he sell them on eBay for what he paid? Should he sell them on eBay at a price that undercuts everyone else, yet allows him to make a few bucks in the process? Should he knock over the chessboard, swear off Spyderco's, and start buying Pakistani knives from Amazon? WSDD? What Should Dusty Do?

[araneae]

I'm a user/accumulator who appreciates trying out different steels. It's not a question of can I buy one, it's can I buy one and not pay an inflated price to a flipper who sees no value in the knife except an easy way to make quick cash. Is the knife worth MAP? I think so, but I am unwilling to pay someone $175-200 for the knife they bought yesterday for $122. I have neither the disposable income nor the desire to pay flippers.

So here's a hypothetical question. Suppose there's this guy, let's call him... Dusty Steel. When the new sprints were announced, he got all wound up and decided it would be a good opportunity to try out a couple Spyderco models he was curious about. We'll call them Model X and Model Y. Then he started second guessing himself, as there was Model Z that was really his favorite Spyderco, but it was too late to order one. And Dusty was sad.

Then an opportunity arose where Dusty was able to bag a sprint flavored Model Z. He loved the knife and life was once again sunshine and lollypops. But there is the lingering question about the preordered Model X and Model Y. Should he take delivery of the order, hoping he'll like both knives? Should he cancel the order? If he gets the new knives and they don't sing to him, what should he do? Should he banish them to the Drawer of Forgotten Knives? Should he sell them on eBay for what he paid? Should he sell them on eBay at a price that undercuts everyone else, yet allows him to make a few bucks in the process? Should he knock over the chessboard, swear off Spyderco's, and start buying Pakistani knives from Amazon? WSDD? What Should Dusty Do?

In your scenario, I would most likely cancel the models X and Y, having obtained what I most wanted. I have certainly ended up with a knife I didn't need and later sold, that happens if you're an enthusiast. I have made money as well reselling knives, sometimes that happens too, even if you're not trying.

But are you implying that flippers aren't really a thing? Sure, Dusty exists, but I don't believe Dusty is our problem. For example, collector's club members regularly sell the pieces that they do not want. I have no issue with that. I have an issue with the guy selling his Cutlery Shoppe exclusive Para 3 using the screenshot of the knife from their site because he doesn't even have it in hand yet. Or the guy asking $300 plus shipping for the knife he just got for $210 with free shipping.

I think a larger run size will limit this, I am not saying flood the market, just dilute it a tad and let users have a better shot at scratching up a new steel without paying an inflated cost. Plus Spyderco gets to sell more knives, which makes a lot of people happy. :)

[Nate]

Never underestimate the power of scarcity, or even the illusion of it, to drive demand. (See: T.P. hoarding)

Imo, dealers who commission their own exclusives shoud do whatever they want. Also, if an exclusive sells out in 15 minutes, that tells me they (Spyderco and the dealer) priced it waaay too low. Would rather see them each take a couple more dollars of margin than the current flipper game. But of course doing so would just create something else for ppl to whine about.

As for actual sprints, I think Spyderco has generally been doing the right thing. Let the dealers have the 27th Para sprint and focus on cool stuff they want to do or that smaller groups are interested in. Spyderhawk, Baby Horn, Kopa, Straight Stretch, etc... I didn't have any worries about scoring any of those lol.

Guess I'm lucky that my tastes have shifted away from the uber-popular models and that in most cases I'm perfectly fine with the regular production variants of models I want to own. YMMV, GLTA

[anycal]

In your scenario, I would most likely cancel the models X and Y, having obtained what I most wanted. I have certainly ended up with a knife I didn't need and later sold, that happens if you're an enthusiast. I have made money as well reselling knives, sometimes that happens too, even if you're not trying.

But are you implying that flippers aren't really a thing? Sure, Dusty exists, but I don't believe Dusty is our problem. For example, collector's club members regularly sell the pieces that they do not want. I have no issue with that. I have an issue with the guy selling his Cutlery Shoppe exclusive Para 3 using the screenshot of the knife from their site because he doesn't even have it in hand yet. Or the guy asking $300 plus shipping for the knife he just got for $210 with free shipping.

I think a larger run size will limit this, I am not saying flood the market, just dilute it a tad and let users have a better shot at scratching up a new steel without paying an inflated cost. Plus Spyderco gets to sell more knives, which makes a lot of people happy. :)

So that make you a less problematic flipper? Enyone can draw their own line, I suppose...

Regardless, we really don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe it is as simple as increasing the runs. Or maybe that action will have unintened consequenses for Spyderco, and ultimately for their customers.

[Sumdumguy]

Baby Horn

BABY.

HORN.

NOW!!!!!!!!


Oh gosh, what I would do for a sprint with an upgraded steel! SB, K390, LC200N, M4, pick your poison!

[araneae]

So that make you a less problematic flipper? Enyone can draw their own line, I suppose...

Regardless, we really don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe it is as simple as increasing the runs. Or maybe that action will have unintened consequenses for Spyderco, and ultimately for their customers.

I'd say it doesn't make me a flipper at all. I don't ever buy Spydies, for the purpose of buying and quickly reselling, which I would say is the definition of flipping.

[Nate]

BABY.

HORN.

NOW!!!!!!!!


Oh gosh, what I would do for a sprint with an upgraded steel! SB, K390, LC200N, M4, pick your poison!

We're thick as theives on that one mate. One of the most underrated releases I've seen in my years as a Spyderholic. Been tempted to buy a backup to my backup just because they're still avaialable. :D