Are sprint runs too small?

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kennethsime
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby kennethsime » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:16 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
Let me know if you have any questions?

sal
My only question is whether or not the guy from BentoBox Shop has asked Spyderco for an exclusive K390 Compression Lock Military 2 in Ranger Green G-10 yet! :D
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
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RustyIron
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby RustyIron » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:38 pm

StuntZombie wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:06 am
Make Spyderco the only source for the initial purchase of any sprint run knives.
I suspect that retailers use the Sprints as an advertising tool to rope in future customers. For example, I recently bagged two Sprints from Smokey Mountain and from St. Cloud. I got what I want, had a good experience, and next time I'm looking for an off-the-shelf knife, I'll look to them first. So whether it's planned or serendipitous, carrying a few Sprints can help increase overall sales for a retailer. I could be totally wrong about this, but it makes sense to me.

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Wartstein
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:20 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
......

Let me know if you have any questions?

sal

Thanks for the explanation! I´d have two questions, if I may:

1.) It was new to me, that Spyderco may reproduce a run of an exclusive after a certain amount of time.
My question: Has this ever been the case?

2.) A certain sprint run is produced only one time in its exact particular configuration.
My question: To what degree would another, later sprint run of the same model have to differ from an already existing sprint run? Would rather minor changes (like just handle color for example) be different enough to make a new sprint run of the exact same model in the exact same steel?

Some random, theoretical examples, to explain what I mean:

- Existing sprint run: Endura, HAP 40, burnt orange handle
Would an Endura, Hap 40, but BRIGHT orange handle differ enough to justify a new sprint run?

- Existing sprint run: Shaman, Cruwear, brown Micarta
Would a Shaman, Cruwear, brown TeroTuff differ enough to justify another sprint run?
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:00 pm

I hope not (too) off topic, but honestly: I never understood why a knife is more desirable just because it is produced in a limited run...?

Sure, I maybe get the "thrill of the chase" and maybe the momentarily relief if one has something in hand of which they were uncertain to get it at all in the first place.

BUT: As soon as I actually own a sprint run it does not bother me or even makes me glad for others if every third other person owned it too.
For example I would enjoy my beloved HAP 40 Endura not less at all if I could spot it in the pockets of other people all the time...

So: Imho sprint runs should be made till everybody who wants one actually has one , even if this would mean a second run (and I know: technically that would not be a real sprint run anymore, but that would be totally fine with me)

Just my 2 Euro-cent of course... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Wartstein
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:20 pm
sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
......

Let me know if you have any questions?

sal

Thanks for the explanation! I´d have two questions, if I may:

1.) It was new to me, that Spyderco may reproduce a run of a dealer exclusive after a certain amount of time.
My question: Has this ever been the case?

2.) A certain sprint run is produced only one time in its exact particular configuration.
My question: To what degree would another, later sprint run of the same model have to differ from an already existing sprint run? Would rather minor changes (like just handle color for example) be different enough to make a new sprint run of the exact same model in the exact same steel?

Some random, theoretical examples, to explain what I mean:

- Existing sprint run: Endura, HAP 40, burnt orange handle
Would an Endura, Hap 40, but BRIGHT orange handle differ enough to justify a new sprint run?

- Existing sprint run: Shaman, Cruwear, brown Micarta
Would a Shaman, Cruwear, brown TeroTuff differ enough to justify another sprint run?

May I ask: Anyone happens to know an answer to one or the other of my questions (see above)? Would appreciate it! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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sal
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby sal » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:39 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:20 pm
sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
......

Let me know if you have any questions?

sal

Thanks for the explanation! I´d have two questions, if I may:

1.) It was new to me, that Spyderco may reproduce a run of an exclusive after a certain amount of time.
My question: Has this ever been the case?

I can't remember if it's ever been done.

2.) A certain sprint run is produced only one time in its exact particular configuration.
My question: To what degree would another, later sprint run of the same model have to differ from an already existing sprint run? Would rather minor changes (like just handle color for example) be different enough to make a new sprint run of the exact same model in the exact same steel?

Yes, a handle color would work, but we will often change something else as well like the steel.

Some random, theoretical examples, to explain what I mean:

- Existing sprint run: Endura, HAP 40, burnt orange handle
Would an Endura, Hap 40, but BRIGHT orange handle differ enough to justify a new sprint run?

- Existing sprint run: Shaman, Cruwear, brown Micarta
Would a Shaman, Cruwear, brown TeroTuff differ enough to justify another sprint run?

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Wartstein
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:59 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:39 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:20 pm
sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
......
Thanks for the explanation! I´d have two questions, if I may:

1.) It was new to me, that Spyderco may reproduce a run of an exclusive after a certain amount of time.
My question: Has this ever been the case?

I can't remember if it's ever been done.

....

Thanks a lot Sal! Appreciate it! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby JRinFL » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:00 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:00 pm
I hope not (too) off topic, but honestly: I never understood why a knife is more desirable just because it is produced in a limited run...?

Sure, I maybe get the "thrill of the chase" and maybe the momentarily relief if one has something in hand of which they were uncertain to get it at all in the first place.

BUT: As soon as I actually own a sprint run it does not bother me or even makes me glad for others if every third other person owned it too.
For example I would enjoy my beloved HAP 40 Endura not less at all if I could spot it in the pockets of other people all the time...

So: Imho sprint runs should be made till everybody who wants one actually has one , even if this would mean a second run (and I know: technically that would not be a real sprint run anymore, but that would be totally fine with me)

Just my 2 Euro-cent of course... ;)
I have had similar thoughts. Perhaps Spyderco can "promote" very popular Sprint runs into Limited runs which are much greater quantities, but still below a standard offering. I would imagine that there would be only a few Sprints to get upgraded to Limited status. The the progression, based on quantities, would look like this Flash Batch, Sprint Run, Limited Run, Production. Exclusives are dealer/distributor specific and not part of this.

Collectors would object, and flippers would complain the loudest, but users and fans would applaud, I think.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder:

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Wartstein
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:02 pm

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:00 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:00 pm
I hope not (too) off topic, but honestly: I never understood why a knife is more desirable just because it is produced in a limited run...?

Sure, I maybe get the "thrill of the chase" and maybe the momentarily relief if one has something in hand of which they were uncertain to get it at all in the first place.

BUT: As soon as I actually own a sprint run it does not bother me or even makes me glad for others if every third other person owned it too.
For example I would enjoy my beloved HAP 40 Endura not less at all if I could spot it in the pockets of other people all the time...

So: Imho sprint runs should be made till everybody who wants one actually has one , even if this would mean a second run (and I know: technically that would not be a real sprint run anymore, but that would be totally fine with me)

Just my 2 Euro-cent of course... ;)
I have had similar thoughts. Perhaps Spyderco can "promote" very popular Sprint runs into Limited runs which are much greater quantities, but still below a standard offering. I would imagine that there would be only a few Sprints to get upgraded to Limited status. The the progression, based on quantities, would look like this Flash Batch, Sprint Run, Limited Run, Production. Exclusives are dealer/distributor specific and not part of this.

Collectors would object, and flippers would complain the loudest, but users and fans would applaud, I think.

Very well said!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby kodai78 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:24 pm

I’m satisfied that my concerns about this topic are being addressed by Spyderco after reading sal’s comments. Namely larger numbers of the Sprint runs. The exclusives are what they are. I’m sure those selling exclusives have a good idea what their market is and those numbers are between them and Spyderco. I’m opposed to a Flash batch entirely unless it is a candidate for upgrade to a Sprint. I feel that is a sort of market manipulation. Never the less I won’t quarrel with someone about how they should run their business. I just won’t buy a Flash but would buy a Sprint if I am so inclined.
:spyder: Smock, Baby Jess Horn CE, Spydiechef, Schempp Bowie,Ti Fluted Military, Titanium Military, Native S30 V and G10, PM 2 in S35VN, and S110V, Manix 2 LW BD1, Sage 5, Positron black CPM S30V, Chaparral w/Raffir Noble scales, SuperLeaf VG 10, Ladybug H1, Dragonfly 2 in ZDP 189 and Superblue/420J1 and H1, Delica in ZDP 189, Clipitool Standard, the Cook’s knife VG10, Santorum, paring and utility knives, all in MBS 26. :spyder:

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sal
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby sal » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:47 pm

Hi Kodai,

Eric decided to try "Flash" batches on models that we don't think there is a big market for, but that the market that is there deserves to be served.

sal

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kennethsime
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby kennethsime » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:05 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:47 pm
Hi Kodai,

Eric decided to try "Flash" batches on models that we don't think there is a big market for, but that the market that is there deserves to be served.

sal
While none of these have appealed to me strongly enough to purchase, I think they're pretty awesome!
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby ugaarguy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:00 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm
I think that the situation is not quite so simple. Some distinctions:

A Sprint run is a run made by Spyderco that is a remake of an earlier design, usually discontinued, that has been changed in some way to distinguish the run from earlier models. It might be a color change, a handle material change , a steel change or some other distinction. We generally use original tooling to make the model. We usually make 1200 pieces of a Sprint run. At this time, we are planning on making larger runs of Sprints to accommodate the larger current market. We usually make about 4 Sprints per year, and we've been making Sprints for decades. It affords the opportunity for someone to acquire a version of a Discontinued model that is no longer available.

...

Let me know if you have any questions?

sal
Yes. Just in reveal 4, the first 2020 reveal, there are at least ten sprints, all of which are current models. So, are the sprint parameters changing? Are there plans to do another Sprint of the Shaman in a premium handle material and premium stainless blade steel? There have been quite a few tool steel sprints and exclusives, but just the one S90V / Carbon Fiber sprint, which I missed out on. If not a sprint, can we get an upgraded stainless steel and G10 version of the Shaman as regular production, just like there are blurple G10 / S110V versions of most of the rest of the Golden lineup?

I'm glad to learn that dealers and distributors have a time limit to reorder exclusives, so they can't just do one run and then take that steel and handle color / material combination out of circulation forever.


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