Are sprint runs too small?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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anycal
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby anycal » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:45 am

araneae wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:03 am
anycal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 am



So that make you a less problematic flipper? Enyone can draw their own line, I suppose... ;)

Regardless, we really don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe it is as simple as increasing the runs. Or maybe that action will have unintened consequenses for Spyderco, and ultimately for their customers.
I'd say it doesn't make me a flipper at all. I don't ever buy Spydies, for the purpose of buying and quickly reselling, which I would say is the definition of flipping.
So intent matters? And who gets to decide which intent is acceptable? How do you know what the intent of someone flipping a knife is? Who gets a pass?

Is there a difference in sellig a knife for 10% profit vs 100% profit? If I am not able to get a knife for what I am willing to pay, then no.

I really don't care. But in your logic, you are drawing lines. Your lines.
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araneae
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby araneae » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:56 am

anycal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:45 am
araneae wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:03 am
anycal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 am



So that make you a less problematic flipper? Enyone can draw their own line, I suppose... ;)

Regardless, we really don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe it is as simple as increasing the runs. Or maybe that action will have unintened consequenses for Spyderco, and ultimately for their customers.
I'd say it doesn't make me a flipper at all. I don't ever buy Spydies, for the purpose of buying and quickly reselling, which I would say is the definition of flipping.
So intent matters? And who gets to decide which intent is acceptable? How do you know what the intent of someone flipping a knife is? Who gets a pass?

Is there a difference in sellig a knife for 10% profit vs 100% profit? If I am not able to get a knife for what I am willing to pay, then no.

I really don't care. But in your logic, you are drawing lines. Your lines.
I'm not looking to argue semantics.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby VashHash » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:56 am

I feel like we need bigger sprint runs. Hardly any 4" bladed sprints. Definitely too small for my taste. More militaries and maybe some police 4 sprints. Gimme the 4"+ Maxamet sprints.

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JRinFL
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby JRinFL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:21 am

I'm in favor of much larger runs of less frequent sprint runs. In other words, fewer sprints per year (say, 1 or 2) and double the quantity. These aren't hard numbers, of course.
Even though I feel flippers now make up a large % of sprint buyers, maybe even the majority, I'd have to say it would not be in Spyderco's own interest to shut down the cash cow. I just wish more users and Spyderco fans could have better chances at getting sprints these days.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder:

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby DTPrime » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:32 am

VashHash wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:56 am
I feel like we need bigger sprint runs. Hardly any 4" bladed sprints. Definitely too small for my taste. More militaries and maybe some police 4 sprints. Gimme the 4"+ Maxamet sprints.
This is the correct response :p

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby ugaarguy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:09 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:16 am
I am not a fan of the 400 piece runs of exclusives.
I'd be okay with it, as long as the dealers ordered additional runs to meet demand. I'm not a fan of BHQ's one and done practice. I don't like that by using the exclusive program, a dealer can take that steel and handle color combo out of future production forever if they just buy one run.

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Mini2white » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:46 pm

I have said in other medias, that in my opinion, the numbers need to be higher now to suite the demand. For some flippers that would not help them as they want less buyers getting the knives so they can profit off their sales. I often want to get two of a model as I am a collector and a user so I want one for the cabinet and one for my pocket. I rarely manage to get one of something I want.

On another note, the way distributors are stirring up interest in coming models is working well for them. Great use of marketing tools.

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sal
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby sal » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:59 pm

Actually I agree that it is problem and this is great thread which provides some real world perspective. We're watching it closely.

sal

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:33 pm

Just another aspect having to do with the actual or just perceived shortage (is this the correct English term?) of some sprints:

It can also lead to people NOT getting a Sprint (or trying to get one):

Just as an example:

I know that I definitely want to get and own a Shaman some time in the future. When I first heard of the upcoming Crucarta version I was rather casually like "well, I really like Micarta, why not get this variant"
Later I realized that many people really passionately wanted that knife, and probably even more for the Cruwear than the Micarta.
That´s when I decided to not even try to get one but leave it to people who actually "ache" for this model and especially the steel, while I am totally fine with S30V and G10 and the Crucarta would have been "just" nice but nothing I really valued a lot over the base model...

Would there have been NO "shortage" though, I probably would have a Crucarta Shaman now instead of most likely buying a "base" model some time in the future
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Tucson Tom
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Tucson Tom » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm

I think the runs are too small, although I have managed to get the ones I want without having to pay inflated prices on the secondary market.
But I feel that I have managed only by the hair of my chinny chin chin.

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DOUBLE D
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby DOUBLE D » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:09 am

I think they could offer all sprints and exclusives to contributing and longstanding forum members first. That might help

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby The Meat man » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:32 am

To meet the increase in demand, there needs to be an increase in supply.

It's a tricky balance to maintain, especially with "luxury goods" such as $150 pocket knives. I understand that from a business perspective, there is some risk to suddenly increasing the supply.

However, I do think there is a lot of safe room for expansion in the Spyderco Sprint Run program, given the enormous demand. (Which I think will only increase thanks to social media.)
- Connor

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby RustyIron » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:12 am

sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:59 pm
Actually I agree that it is problem and this is great thread which provides some real world perspective. We're watching it closely.
The Spyderco Forum is a microcosm of the real world? For real? :D And here I thought we were a bunch of fanboys who were in no way representative of the knife-buying public.

The bigger question is, "What's Spyderco doing making all these sprint knives?"

My guess is that the tradition started off with someone making a deal to buy some material that was hard to get or hard to work with, and then deciding, "Let's make it into an experimental knife and see how it works out. But when we're done, we're done."

Or maybe sprints are a market test, where you see how fast a limited edition sells, before committing to manufacturing truckloads of a particular configuration.

Or maybe Spyderco is a much of marketing geniuses, like Steve Jobs, who can get people wound up months in advance, and waiting in line all night, just to get the latest iPhone/Sprint knife before anyone else.

One can only guess...

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby araneae » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:48 am

RustyIron wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:12 am
sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:59 pm
Actually I agree that it is problem and this is great thread which provides some real world perspective. We're watching it closely.
The Spyderco Forum is a microcosm of the real world? For real? :D And here I thought we were a bunch of fanboys who were in no way representative of the knife-buying public.

The bigger question is, "What's Spyderco doing making all these sprint knives?"

My guess is that the tradition started off with someone making a deal to buy some material that was hard to get or hard to work with, and then deciding, "Let's make it into an experimental knife and see how it works out. But when we're done, we're done."

Or maybe sprints are a market test, where you see how fast a limited edition sells, before committing to manufacturing truckloads of a particular configuration.

Or maybe Spyderco is a much of marketing geniuses, like Steve Jobs, who can get people wound up months in advance, and waiting in line all night, just to get the latest iPhone/Sprint knife before anyone else.

One can only guess...
We don't have to guess about the definition: From the Spyderco glossary-
Sprint Run: A limited, one-time-only production of a specific knife design or variant. Production quantities of sprint runs are limited to less than 1500 pieces.

Sprints are often a test bed for less common steels. Some of which later show up in production. They are not so much a marketing test as they are one and done by definition. You don't get a second run of the same configuration.

And they really aren't analogous to the latest iPhone which is mass produced. Generally speaking, sprint runs sell out fast these days. Often in weeks and most dealers sell out in minutes to hours lately. You can get an iPhone at pretty much any store whenever you want. Dealer exclusives, which are not the same as a Sprint run, can sell out even faster because they presumably choose the quantity made.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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araneae
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby araneae » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:50 am

sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:59 pm
Actually I agree that it is problem and this is great thread which provides some real world perspective. We're watching it closely.

sal
Thanks for weighing in Sal. After real effort, I do have my Rex 45 Para 3 on the way, I'll put a scratch or 2 on it for you.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby Burton Knut » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:56 pm

After reading this whole thread a couple things come to mind...

If doing preorders is feasible on Spyderco’s end, I’d be happy to pay a deposit, or outright, for knives to help them calculate demand and guarantee myself one (or two as I like backups on users.) And just to be clear, after reading numerous horror stories from the custom knife world, I don’t jump on preorders without plenty of consideration. Spyderco’s reputation and representation being what they are, I wouldn’t hesitate to give them my trust in handling a preorder properly.

I often wonder how bad the flippers actually are because I don’t frequently browse the bay looking for Spydies. That being said if the stories of knives popping up before or immediately after a drop at inflated prices are true then there’s no denying the phenomenon. If its an auction sell and the bids go through the roof that’s one thing, but a “buy it now” or starting price that's unreasonably high is something else entirely. Still I wonder how many pieces we’re talking about relative to the entire release.

And finally, because all threads are better with pics...here’s my latest sprint acquisition after a good week plus on the job and a couple solid tests passed!
862400A6-AC17-43AB-8EAE-B30E5413DBB1.jpeg

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby yowzer » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:20 pm

I think a lot of them are too small. I've been interested in the Rex45 and Cruwear ones, but I've never found a store that was taking pre-orders when I was checking them out. Listings always went from 'coming soon' to 'sold out' with no intermediate, and I'm not willing to pay the jacked-up price to buy one from a flipper. It's frustrating.

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby ugaarguy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:59 pm
Actually I agree that it is problem and this is great thread which provides some real world perspective. We're watching it closely.

sal
Sal, are there any plans to do more sprints in carbon fiber or other less common handle materials, and higher end stainless steels? I wasn't able to get in on the CF / S90V Shaman sprint last year, and it seems like everything else of late has been sprints of tool steels with a color change to the G10 or FRN handle. I hope I can get a Watu at a decent price when those drop. I appreciate that you're looking into higher volume sprints since demand has risen so much over the past several years.

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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby StuntZombie » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:06 am

I think the best "solution" to the problem was something I saw suggested by another user in another thread about this exact same topic (sigh). Make Spyderco the only source for the initial purchase of any sprint run knives. Since Spyderco sells at MSRP so they won't compete with their dealers, the increased cost might help discourage flippers since it will require a larger investment, and if Spyderco has some sort of system in place allowing one purchase per address, account, etc, it would keep them from being able to source knives from multiple dealers. Of course, this might lead to increased costs on Spyderco's end, because it may require more staff to handle a larger volume of sales and shipping through their store.
Chris

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sal
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Re: Are sprint runs too small?

Postby sal » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 pm

I think that the situation is not quite so simple. Some distinctions:

A Sprint run is a run made by Spyderco that is a remake of an earlier design, usually discontinued, that has been changed in some way to distinguish the run from earlier models. It might be a color change, a handle material change , a steel change or some other distinction. We generally use original tooling to make the model. We usually make 1200 pieces of a Sprint run. At this time, we are planning on making larger runs of Sprints to accommodate the larger current market. We usually make about 4 Sprints per year, and we've been making Sprints for decades. It affords the opportunity for someone to acquire a version of a Discontinued model that is no longer available.

An Exclusive is a run of a model that is made for a particular customer, usually a distributor or dealer, that wants to be able to have a model, usually a current model, but sometimes a disco'd model, that they control sales and distribution. They'll generally select a steel, handle material and/or other specialty features like a blackened blade. We've only been making exclusives for a few years. They were able to produce as few as 600 pieces in the past, but we've recently raised the required number ordered due to the issues being discussed in this thread. These are specialty models that we cannot make and inventory for the market because of our own limits. They are able to bring out more runs of the same exact combination up to a point in time. If they do not reproduce the run within a certain amount of time, then Spyderco is able to reproduce the model if Spyderco chooses. It should be noted that this is a big gamble for a company in which to invest. They have to pay for the run in total when it's delivered, so you should appreciate their efforts.

Sometimes we will refuse an Exclusive request if it's something that we have been planning or working on as an in house project.

Let me know if you have any questions?

sal


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