Are sprint runs too small?

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araneae
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Are sprint runs too small?

Postby araneae » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:30 pm

The chase of the sprint run has lost all fun for me lately. I remember when it used to be a challenge, but it was not a ton of work that lead to repeated disappointment when it failed. Yes, you can pre-order if you have the funds available and are prompt, but even that is a trick with some sites now. Many are booked up shortly after a model is announced and way before they actually drop. I am working primarily from home due to covid, and I'm checking fairly regularly for the Para 3 lightweight in REX 45 across a heap of websites. I am also watching instagram several times a day to look for announcements. This is something I would never have had time to do during a normal workday. Missed them about 5 times so far, seems they last somewhere between 5 and 15 minutes before the vendor is sold out. And they are already showing up on ebay already at inflated prices. I don't know how many pieces are in this run, but I just want to buy a knife at MAP price and use it.

The secondary market is just plain stupid lately. People have knives up on ebay before they even have them in hand these days and it seem like you can just name your price and have a desperate buyer. Flipping has been a concern for a long time, not going to stop it, but at least it could be limited a bit by controlling supply. I'm not sure if this is what Spyderco is hoping for, but perhaps they want a stressful frenzy and a lot of dissappointed knife afi's, seems unlikely though. I think Sal and Co probably want people using their knives rather than hoarding them for financial gain.

I understand with vendor exclusives, they can choose the numbers and maybe they want the exclusivity because it creates hype and is free marketing. Look at St. Nicks and Knifejoy, never heard of them a few years back, now they're pretty well known.

Is it time to look at numbers on the sprint runs and re-evaluate? Make enough so we can actually buy one without taking a week off work and hitting refresh all day on 18 browser tabs... Thanks for listening to me vent and sorry for the negative tone, I have tabs to refresh.
Last edited by araneae on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Evil D
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm

It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby VooDooChild » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:45 pm

I think exclisives are taking alot of pressure off of sprints, hopefully.

Secondly it always depends on the sprint. Anyone could have casually gotten a straight spine stretch. On the other hand, Im not sure if the crucarta shaman even exist? (The pictures are fakes its all a conspiracy.)

While it is frustrating if you miss the what has become the 1 day or less window, I was able to get my last sprint and last 2 exclusives without too much difficulty.

But in the future if I miss out on some that I really want I might be singing a different tune.

And yes its the flippers that are a huge problem.

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araneae
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby araneae » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:25 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm
It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).
I guess I'm concerned with supply and demand. Maybe "limited" is too vague a term. Supply is the same if they are making 1200 now and they were also making 1200 15 years ago. I think demand is up and supply isn't adjusting(or maybe not adjusting enough).

I would guess that the market for sprints has grown, if anything. With social media and mobile devices, more people are probably aware of sprints now than they were in 2015 or 2010 or 2000, and they are actively pursuing them. We didn't used to have the ability to check our phone for a knife that dropped while hiding in the bathroom stall at work.That's probably pretty common now and for some knives, appears to be necessary. I even have my email registered for notification with multiple websites and my phone number for text alerts; I find these generally unreliable.

1200 pieces now (if that's what the number is) feels like a lot fewer than it did back then. Just my 2 cents.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Mushroom » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:58 pm

I've noticed a few guys on instagram going out of their way to post each and every website that these sprints and exclusives show up in stock at. Notifying their tens of thousands of followers, the moment they show up in stock. They push the idea that you should just buy these knives to buy them because they can always be resold for a profit down the road. So, on top of the already greatly increased number of flippers, there is an exponential increase in the amount of "non-Spyderco" aficionados buying these knives, whether they know what they're buying or not. So demand in general has undoubtedly increased.

In my opinion, the biggest issue with the flippers is actually the people willing to pay their exorbitant asking prices. I just cant help but think if these knives weren't selling at those prices, they wouldn't be asking those prices.
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby ladybug93 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:30 pm

i don’t like the system at all. spyderco is generally very good about listening to their customers, so i’d rather they be watching here and the rest of the knife community to see what the demand is for certain items and then focus production in that direction. i know people like that spyderco tries new steels and does different things for sprints and exclusives, but i’d rather they spend the resources on production models, to include adding new steels into production the demand is high enough.
as an example, there has been talk for a while of expanding the use of lc200n across the golden line. well, ever since spyderco switched the reveal method, that talk has dropped off completely and we’ve seen countless tool steel sprints and exclusives. i can’t help but believe these add to the delay in models that we want to see in production because it takes time and resources to make them happen.
and i understand those tool steels are popular as well, but wouldn’t you rather just see a line of m4 knives coming from spyderco on a consistent basis instead of these hurry up and grab your favorite model before you never have a chance again sprints and exclusives? personally, i’d rather never have the model i want than have to deal with the sprint and exclusive game to get it.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby joeldworkin307 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:04 pm

The supply may be the same as it was 20 years ago, but there were 1.5 billion fewer people. At least a few of them probably want Spydercos.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:06 pm

Mushroom wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:58 pm
I've noticed a few guys on instagram going out of their way to post each and every website that these sprints and exclusives show up in stock at. Notifying their tens of thousands of followers, the moment they show up in stock. They push the idea that you should just buy these knives to buy them because they can always be resold for a profit down the road. So, on top of the already greatly increased number of flippers, there is an exponential increase in the amount of "non-Spyderco" aficionados buying these knives, whether they know what they're buying or not. So demand in general has undoubtedly increased.

In my opinion, the biggest issue with the flippers is actually the people willing to pay their exorbitant asking prices. I just cant help but think if these knives weren't selling at those prices, they wouldn't be asking those prices.
I know there's one guy in particular who seems like he wants to be the knife advertiser for IG & the FB groups. Takes all his knife pictures in a table top light tent etc. He seems like a nice enough guy with good intentions but I sometimes think it's a little much. I guess it's not much different than we do here but he also does advertising posts. I get the feeling he's trying to get Sal or some dealer to hire him.

I haven't read all the posts (including the OP) but I like the Sprint run numbers just like they are. The fact that they're limited is one of things about them that appeals to me. If I can't get one for whatever reason I'm not gonna worry about. Can't have them all and there"ll always be something else coming.
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby GarageBoy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:29 pm

it's like playing whack a mole with multiple dealers
I just hate how it's the only way to get certain steels, and a lot of them end up in flipper hands (you see them RIGHT after they ship on ebay and classifieds)

Sure, I want the guys who post Manix/PM2/Shaman rainbows to have them, but it'd be nice for steel nerds to be able to get them as well

Welp, there's always the regular production K390

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:44 pm

GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Welp, there's always the regular production K390
That's only for the Ladybug. I believe the rest will be sprints.

I remember Sal posting about it. Anyone got a link?

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby tbdoc4kids » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:07 pm

Regular production of many or most of the Seki FRN line in K390 IIRC.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby koenigsegg » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:25 pm

I don't really have problem with exclusives but sprint runs have become pretty difficult since they get released in 100 tiny batches that come up at random times on random sites. Pain in the tail. DLT did it right and waited till all came in and told when they were coming
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby ugaarguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:27 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm
It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).
1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Mushroom » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:49 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:44 pm
GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Welp, there's always the regular production K390
That's only for the Ladybug. I believe the rest will be sprints.

I remember Sal posting about it. Anyone got a link?
According to Sal, the K390 Endura Family will be regular production models.
viewtopic.php?p=1394717#p1394717
tbdoc4kids wrote: Regular production of many or most of the Seki FRN line in K390 IIRC.
You are correct. :)
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:57 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:27 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm
It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).
1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

No, still 1200 pieces, just significantly easier to get. Are we debating how limited something is or how in demand it is because they're two different things. Right now toilet paper is in high demand but not because it's limited, the quantity never changed but demand did. Sprints aren't any harder to get because they're more limited, they aren't any more limited than they've ever been because supply hasn't changed. They may be more in demand, or more specifically more accessible, but that doesn't make them more limited.




Regardless, the answer to this thread is the same as it has been and always will be:

Collectors will say NO, low volume means increased value and higher resale value.

Users will say YES, high volume means I won't have to pay what the collectors or flippers want just for a knife I want to use.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:03 pm

Mushroom wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:49 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:44 pm
GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Welp, there's always the regular production K390
That's only for the Ladybug. I believe the rest will be sprints.

I remember Sal posting about it. Anyone got a link?
According to Sal, the K390 Endura Family will be regular production models.
viewtopic.php?p=1394717#p1394717
tbdoc4kids wrote: Regular production of many or most of the Seki FRN line in K390 IIRC.
You are correct. :)
I stand corrected.

I must have missed that one.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby ugaarguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:15 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:57 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:27 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 pm
It doesn't seem like quantities are any less, more like flippers and resale value have increased so demand is greater. Higher demand doesn't mean something is more limited since 1200 pieces is the same as 1200 pieces. Back in '98 when the internet machine wasn't what it is today, sprints didn't sell out like they do today because they're not as easy to get (easy as in, add to cart and click purchase).
1200 pieces isn't the same as 1200 pieces when demand has increased, access has increased, and disposable incomes have increased.

No, still 1200 pieces, just significantly easier to get. Are we debating how limited something is or how in demand it is because they're two different things. Right now toilet paper is in high demand but not because it's limited, the quantity never changed but demand did. Sprints aren't any harder to get because they're more limited, they aren't any more limited than they've ever been because supply hasn't changed. They may be more in demand, or more specifically more accessible, but that doesn't make them more limited.




Regardless, the answer to this thread is the same as it has been and always will be:

Collectors will say NO, low volume means increased value and higher resale value.

Users will say YES, high volume means I won't have to pay what the collectors or flippers want just for a knife I want to use.
The same 1200 pieces can no longer meet the demand. Just like one dollar is still one dollar, but that one dollar was worth more 22 years ago. The sprint run quantity doesn't seem to have risen to meet the increase in number of buyers. Demand is greatly outstripping supply for most of these sprints.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby VooDooChild » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:18 pm

Why doesnt spyderco just propose a possible sprint run idea. Then open up ordering on their website for a week or so. Anyone who preorders pays in full, or they have your info and can charge you once the knife is made and shipped. So you better be certain you want it. If some minimum number isnt met nobody gets charged and the knives dont get made. The maximum can simply be however many get ordered over the course of a week at a maximum of 1 (or 2) per card or account.

This would let anyone who actually wants some steel and whatever combo a chance to get one, and it would really mess up the flippers. Since even if they order a bunch on different cards, most people who were going to pay inflated prices already had a chance to order.

Spyderco makes more money, or at least doesnt lose money on unpopular sprints.

Just throwing it out there.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby aaronkb » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:54 pm

I think Nick Shabazz has it right. Knives that are meant to be users (aka basically any spyderco sprint or exclusive) shouldn’t be limited - that just turns a user into a collector’s item that people are afraid to damage.

For collectors who want the excitement and exclusivity of limited runs, decorative elements such as unique handle colors or patterns should suffice. They don’t need Rex 45 if the knife is gonna sit on the shelf forever. Or let them waste their Rex 45 (with a cool exclusive handle), but give the rest of us Rex 45/cruwear/M4 etc versions that are NOT limited so we aren’t afraid to use them.

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Re: Are sprint runs too limited?

Postby jabba359 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 pm

araneae wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:30 pm
Is it time to look at numbers on the sprint runs and re-evaluate? Make enough so we can actually buy one without taking a week off work and hitting refresh all day on 18 browser tabs... Thanks for listening to me vent and sorry for the negative tone, I have tabs to refresh.
I'm pretty sure in a recent thread with a similar topic, Sal said they were going to look at increasing sprint run quantities to address the problem you're having. That was likely too recent to have affected the size of the REX45 runs, but hopefully larger runs of popular models/steels will help make them more easily acquired for upcoming runs.
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