Micro Serrations

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alnico357
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Micro Serrations

Postby alnico357 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:56 pm

Yesterday I used a Lansky Puck to put a course grind edge on my carry Delica. I mainly slice stuff and don't shave with it. I think it is going to be my preferred method. :) Just a thought.

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sal
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby sal » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:43 pm

Hi Alnico,

Welcome to our forum.

The question of micro serration has been a discussion for the the past 50 years that I have been in the knife industry. Some say they don't exist and some say they do.

This should be an interesting discussion.

sal

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Pancake
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Pancake » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:40 am

Like, there is a difference between your edge finish. You can notice if you have like 220 grit finish or 2000 grit finish. If you try to slice your finger along the edge, 220 grit edge is going to bite more then 2000. But, there is this misconception that low grit finish is not sharp, that is pure BS, you can have shaving sharp edge of someting like DMT X coarse and it will have so much raw agression during a slicing cut.

But again, regular serrations, full Spyderedge is going to blow even the coarsest of finish out of water.
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Evil D
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:08 am

So when I sharpen my SE Caribbean on CBN rods I have micro serrated serrations. It's like SE inception :D



Seriously though that combo will cut anything. Give it a try. I like to strop mine on my Goldenstone sheath edge. If you don't right it'll still shave hair but is still toothy and aggressive.
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Ruudr
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Ruudr » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:28 am

I also depends what kind of steel you use. A steel with a lot of carbides performs most of the time better with a coarse finish. I believe Scienceofsharp.com has a nice article about it.

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Pancake
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Pancake » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:07 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:08 am
So when I sharpen my SE Caribbean on CBN rods I have micro serrated serrations. It's like SE inception :D
Image

Sadly I dont have any CBN or diamonds rod....
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45

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Evil D
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:14 am

Pancake wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:07 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:08 am
So when I sharpen my SE Caribbean on CBN rods I have micro serrated serrations. It's like SE inception :D
Image

Sadly I dont have any CBN or diamonds rod....

I wish I could find the old Edge-U-Cation about serrations that was on the website back in '05 when I got my SE Native, it basically explained that serrations had micro serrations. I don't recall exactly how it was worded but it sold me on SE way back then so whoever wrote it needs a raise.
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:28 am

I like a finish around 600-800 on my folders and outdoor knives. Sometimes as low as 1200.

Kitchen knives will often get a much finer edge.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:39 am

My Caribbean comes away far "sharper" from the brown rods, than it does the whites. Perhaps there is some validity to the micro serration theory.

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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:55 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:39 am
My Caribbean comes away far "sharper" from the brown rods, than it does the whites. Perhaps there is some validity to the micro serration theory.


Have you done the full grit profession brown/fine/UF? If I take the time to let each one polish out the grit from the previous rod and then strop, I get ridiculous edges. There's nothing like serrations that tree top hair off your arm without touching skin.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby soulspy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:06 am

I like a toothy edge. Mirrored edges look nice, but those "micro-serraations" cut like a dream.

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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Pancake » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:59 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:55 am

Have you done the full grit profession brown/fine/UF? If I take the time to let each one polish out the grit from the previous rod and then strop, I get ridiculous edges. There's nothing like serrations that tree top hair off your arm without touching skin.
Hey David, I was thinking about ultra fine stones, just for kicks. I only have one SE H1 blade, but it can get pretty sharp of the fine rod, but I always need some stropping to get that slicing edge. Are the ultra fine worth it?
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45

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Evil D
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:59 pm

Pancake wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:59 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:55 am

Have you done the full grit profession brown/fine/UF? If I take the time to let each one polish out the grit from the previous rod and then strop, I get ridiculous edges. There's nothing like serrations that tree top hair off your arm without touching skin.
Hey David, I was thinking about ultra fine stones, just for kicks. I only have one SE H1 blade, but it can get pretty sharp of the fine rod, but I always need some stropping to get that slicing edge. Are the ultra fine worth it?


Well I wouldn't say they're "essential" but I definitely see a difference when I use them, and I like having the whole Sharpmaker set just so I can do any steel and any edge finish I want.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby soc_monki » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:14 pm

Setting the bevel with the diamond rods (30 degrees) or on my 325 grit diamond stone, and then putting a microbevel (40 degrees) with the brown stones leaves an edge that will pop hair if you just glide the blade along your arm, but will slice through pretty much anything with very little effort. To me it is a much better edge than fully polished, but I don't really do any push cutting. If I were push cutting all day a polished edge would work for me.

As it is, coarse bevel with a slightly higher grit microbevel. Works for me. Everyone at work is amazed at how sharp my knives are. I am too lol!
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:18 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:55 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:39 am
My Caribbean comes away far "sharper" from the brown rods, than it does the whites. Perhaps there is some validity to the micro serration theory.


Have you done the full grit profession brown/fine/UF? If I take the time to let each one polish out the grit from the previous rod and then strop, I get ridiculous edges. There's nothing like serrations that tree top hair off your arm without touching skin.
Not yet. I generally do brown, then white, if necessary. I have Diamond rods, but I haven't had to use them on much.

I'll be upgrading my sharpening setup eventually.

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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Mike Blue » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:25 pm

If photos can't prove the case that grit scratch marks are equal to microserrations, then we need someone with a much better camera rig to take photomicrographs.

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Evil D
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:39 pm

Mike Blue wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:25 pm
If photos can't prove the case that grit scratch marks are equal to microserrations, then we need someone with a much better camera rig to take photomicrographs.
I've seen lots of very very high magnification pics of edges that basically look like the ridge of a mountain top. The more coarse the edge finish, the more jagged the ridge is and visa versa. There are certainly teeth of some sort, whether or not the closely resemble what we think of as serrations is debatable. Those jagged teeth still manage to cut despite being...jagged, as opposed to a high polish edge where the ridge is very crisp and smooth and far less jagged.
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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Mike Blue » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Some single point has to break the surface tension of the material being cut somewhere along the edge. Mulitple points make that begin sooner. The balance between polished edge and a toothy feel may well be completely subjective. I can understand an art chef wanting a polished edge so that the food bits are nearly transparent. I can also understand the second line cooks wanting a toothier edge because all that prep work won't get done without one.

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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby Stuart Ackerman » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:22 pm

I will do some pics of a Serrata and a Sustain side by side...both at 400 grit...and then both at 1000 grit, as soon as I can find my digi-scope?

The magnification will be the highest I can crank it, hopefully?

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Re: Micro Serrations

Postby kennethsime » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:41 pm

Stuart Ackerman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:22 pm
I will do some pics of a Serrata and a Sustain side by side...both at 400 grit...and then both at 1000 grit, as soon as I can find my digi-scope?

The magnification will be the highest I can crank it, hopefully?
Looking forward to this.
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