What happened to the Native III moulds?
What happened to the Native III moulds?
I was doing some repairs at home at home yesterday and used the Native I that lives in my toolbox ... it was good to use it for the first time in a while. It made me think that I had not used my Native III for a very, very long time so it got pulled out the deep dark recesses of my knife storage. I don't carry serrated blades often but I realised I missed this knife!
The ergonomics are very different to the more "blocky" Native 1 and 5s. I have avoided getting a Native 5 lightweight as I understand that it is even more "blocky" than the 1. The Native III really is, for me, a much more comfortable knife to use. The handle fills the hand nicely, the edges are significantly more radiused than the Golden FRN models and Sal's makers mark in the FRN is, I suspect, fairly unique. Whilst the peak on the choil is pointier than the 1s and 5s' (note the mod on my G10 5 in the photos :eek: ), it is more comfortable due to the radiuses edges.
So what happened to the moulds. If they exist, could they be modified for screw construction and Golden's lock back mechanism? Create a full flat Native "comfygrip" ?
Anyway, enough rambling ... show the photos :
C41 Native I, C78 Native III and G10 Native 5
Sal's makers mark on the III
Close ups of the differences in handle shapes I vs III
Anyway - if the moulds still exist, what are the chances of an upgraded version with screw construction, full flat grind and the same old style jimping?
The ergonomics are very different to the more "blocky" Native 1 and 5s. I have avoided getting a Native 5 lightweight as I understand that it is even more "blocky" than the 1. The Native III really is, for me, a much more comfortable knife to use. The handle fills the hand nicely, the edges are significantly more radiused than the Golden FRN models and Sal's makers mark in the FRN is, I suspect, fairly unique. Whilst the peak on the choil is pointier than the 1s and 5s' (note the mod on my G10 5 in the photos :eek: ), it is more comfortable due to the radiuses edges.
So what happened to the moulds. If they exist, could they be modified for screw construction and Golden's lock back mechanism? Create a full flat Native "comfygrip" ?
Anyway, enough rambling ... show the photos :
C41 Native I, C78 Native III and G10 Native 5
Sal's makers mark on the III
Close ups of the differences in handle shapes I vs III
Anyway - if the moulds still exist, what are the chances of an upgraded version with screw construction, full flat grind and the same old style jimping?
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
I am afraid the molds will not exist anymore.
At least that's what Sal said concerning the Stretch 1 as far as I recall, so I guess this will be also true for the Native 3...
I never had a Native 3, but I have a feeling I'd maybe take it over the current "5"..
At least that's what Sal said concerning the Stretch 1 as far as I recall, so I guess this will be also true for the Native 3...
I never had a Native 3, but I have a feeling I'd maybe take it over the current "5"..
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
The Native 5 is the upgraded version. Personally, I think a Native 5 with a palm swell would be a more fitting solution. The Native 3 just doesn't appear as refined, now that there are two iterations that have followed it. I also dont like the jimping either and think the current jimping is just as effective yet looks much classier.
:spyder:
:spyder:
-Nick
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Funny, I never noticed the Sal makers mark on the FRN. This knife became my EDC about a year and a half ago so that I could really try a CE blade. I've grown to appreciate both the blade and the molded scales since the VG-10 is easy to keep sharp and the scales give great purchase even when wet. I've tried and missed out on hunting down the Forum version that came out in blue FRN in 2003. Long live all the Natives!
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4786
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
While I support everyone having the perfect knife for them, I'll also comment that I prefer folders that lay flat in the pocket. I do appreciate a nice 3D handle on a fixed blade for heavier chores, but I don't EDC a fixed blade any more than I use my folders for more than a few minutes at a time.
Perhaps the Native 5 molds one could radius a Native 5's scales a bit to provide more comfort?
Perhaps the Native 5 molds one could radius a Native 5's scales a bit to provide more comfort?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
i PSquared,
The molds still exist. All of the Native designs were mine. I don't know if the molds can be modified for screw construction. They are old. The Golden lock-back really can't be made anywhere else. Very tight tolerances (3-10 thousanths - .0003).
sal
The molds still exist. All of the Native designs were mine. I don't know if the molds can be modified for screw construction. They are old. The Golden lock-back really can't be made anywhere else. Very tight tolerances (3-10 thousanths - .0003).
sal
- Liquid Cobra
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- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:38 pm
- Location: British Columbia, CANADA
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Sal, now that I’m making my own stuff I actually know what .0003 means. That’s incredible. I’m learning a lot about finishes, grinds etc and it’s given me a huge appreciation for how well your knives are made.
Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Hi Sal,
just out of interest; How do you decide which molds can be kept, and which will be destroyed?
I can recall you once explaining to me, that the Stretch 1 molds would not exist any more.
Now the Stretch 1 also was your design... Is it, that only molds for Golden made knives can be kept (and not for Seki made knives)?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Many thanks for the informative response Sal.
The debate about contoured vs flat scales will be much the same as it was in the D'Allara thread when the "new" G10 version was released. Some like flat, others like contoured.
A flat ground sprint Native III would be really nice, pinned or not but I suspect screwed would be better for sales.
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Thanks, I did not know this!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
In a way, the contouring led the way for the Shaman
I always found it unusual that the Native and Native III were concurrent models
I always found it unusual that the Native and Native III were concurrent models
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Wartstein wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:52 pmHi Sal,
just out of interest; How do you decide which molds can be kept, and which will be destroyed?
I can recall you once explaining to me, that the Stretch 1 molds would not exist any more.
Now the Stretch 1 also was your design... Is it, that only molds for Golden made knives can be kept (and not for Seki made knives)? [/quote
Hi Warstein,
We rarely destroy molds. We've lost a few when makers retired or passed. We changed the molds on the "World Trade Center" model to create the D'Allara and to ensure the original knife would not be reproduced. Sometimes we can modify a mold such as in the Stretch, or the Vagabond. Once it's modified, the "Old" mold is essentially destroyed in that we cannot recreate it without starting at square one.
sal
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Sal, when a model is retired does the mold get sent back to you in Golden, or does it stay with the factory (wherever that was)?
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
PSquared wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:18 amMany thanks for the informative response Sal.
The debate about contoured vs flat scales will be much the same as it was in the D'Allara thread when the "new" G10 version was released. Some like flat, others like contoured.
A flat ground sprint Native III would be really nice, pinned or not but I suspect screwed would be better for sales.
Hi PSquared,
It's always a balance between use and carry. Contoured is more comfortable to use, but it takes up more pocket real estate. Flat is easier to carry, but less comfortable to use. The Shaman was my attempt at a compromise.
FYI, the same balanced exists in carry firearms. Larger caliber does a better job, smaller is easier to carry. That's why there is a current push for smaller carry 9mm.
sal
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Hi Tom,
Generally we store them in the country of origin. We have moved molds a few times, like the "Bi-Fold", but in general, fixtures are too different to adapt the mold.
sal
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
I had always thought that the Native 3 would be a great handle for a longer, 4-5" fixed blade.
Re: What happened to the Native III moulds?
Thanks a lot, Sal! Interesting!Wartstein wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:52 pmHi Sal,
just out of interest; How do you decide which molds can be kept, and which will be destroyed?
I can recall you once explaining to me, that the Stretch 1 molds would not exist any more.
Now the Stretch 1 also was your design... Is it, that only molds for Golden made knives can be kept (and not for Seki made knives)? [/quote
Hi Warstein,
We rarely destroy molds. We've lost a few when makers retired or passed. We changed the molds on the "World Trade Center" model to create the D'Allara and to ensure the original knife would not be reproduced. Sometimes we can modify a mold such as in the Stretch, or the Vagabond. Once it's modified, the "Old" mold is essentially destroyed in that we cannot recreate it without starting at square one.
sal
And "destroyed" certainly was the wrong term... blame it on my still far from perfect English when it comes to the more subtle meaning of some words... :o
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)