Knife request idea.

[Kevinim82]

Hello Sal and Spyderco team,

I am a happy addict of your great production knives.

I wanted to make a request for a specialty knife. I have seen in the past how well your company supports our American troops with service knives dedicating their operations. I have respect with how your company supports our front line police officers/EMS, and active military.

In the up coming weeks our health care system will be stressed unlike ever before. Right now we face a calm before the storm. I carry a ladybug every day to open up boxes for the clinic I help run at a large hospital system in Cleveland Ohio. I am a registered nurse and work in a specialty clinic. Just today I had to ask my supply chain for as many procedure masks as they could give me for my whole department (spanning more than 8 satellite clinics.) At this moment we are open, but I have a suspicion we will only continue in tele/virtual health visits in the coming weeks. And I will most likely extend myself back to working inpatient where the greatest need will be lacking.

COVID-19 has really changed our everyday lives. I think our front line nurses/doctors/EMS/police would like a dedicated tool made in the USA, that recognizes their commitment, dedication, and sacrifice to the American people in this most unprecedented time.

-Kevin Morrison MSN RN

[sal]

Hi Kevin,j

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the kind words.

These are tough times for sure.

What kind of knife / tool do you have in mind?

Be Vigilant !

sal

[ladybug93]

what a great idea. hospitals usually have strict knife rules, so for a made in america knife, i would think maybe a lil native with lc200n. i imagine healthcare professionals are exposed to and have to cut through lots of crazy things in a hurry, so they might not have time to worry about wiping the blade before putting it away. maybe g10 in a color that represents the medical field (like that blue colors you always see scrubs or nitrile gloves in)? a lw might be even better, but i don’t know how far spyderco is in the development of a lil native lw. anyway, just some ideas. as a bonus, a lot of other people would be very excited about a lil native salt, so you’ll never have to worry about selling them and you could even set it up for a portion of the profit to be donated.

[Mike Blue]

Something easy to clean without hidden nooks or crannies to collect gradu. One that will survive an ultrasonic bath. All metal, SS or TI, so it can be autoclaved or gas sterilized without reactivity to the chemicals or heat.

Shears are much more likely used when cutting away clothing. But a compact lightweight EDC would be useful on a daily basis.

[Accutron]

How about solid copper handles with no liners? Viruses and bacteria have the lowest survivability period on copper surfaces. SARS-CoV-2 surface survivability on copper is measured in hours instead of days.

[Dazen]

This might be a good situation for a Neck Knife. No moving parts, can be hidden if needed and it won’t weigh down some already flimsy scrubs. The idea of copper scales and a dark turquoise (scrub color) sheath would be a pretty nice setup.

[Doc Dan]

How about solid copper handles with no liners? Viruses and bacteria have the lowest survivability period on copper surfaces. SARS-CoV-2 surface survivability on copper is measured in hours instead of days.

Not copper, rather brass, gold, silver.

[Accutron]

How about solid copper handles with no liners? Viruses and bacteria have the lowest survivability period on copper surfaces. SARS-CoV-2 surface survivability on copper is measured in hours instead of days.

Not copper, rather brass, gold, silver.

Brass efficacy is due to its copper content, but acts more slowly than pure copper. Silver has antimicrobial properties, but is more expensive and less effective than copper. Solid gold is irrelevant because of cost, and gold plating wears off. Copper is the obvious choice.

[Kevinim82]

Thank you Sal for the greeting, and discussing the idea of a commemorative knife.

I think ladybug93 has a very great idea. I second her idea. A lil native lock back with a stainless steel blade sounds very usable.

If LC200N is an available steel that would be awesome, anything stainless would be preferred and anything easy to sharpen would also be preferred.

I would recommend a polished g-10 over something with the lw grip (I am thinking it is easier to wash off a smooth surface.)

The antimicrobial metals have merit, but I don't know how easy and affordable it would be to do?

I think instead of a "spydie hole" an "O2 wrench hole" would be a nice touch.

[Halfneck]

All metal(copper, etc) sounds nice, but would drag down scrub pockets. Also drives up price.

The G10 smoothness over FRN due to "gunk" factor has merit.

Has there ever been a G10 Ladybug?

Co-Pilot in G10 might be interesting?

Dragofly in G10 & LC200N steel might sell well.


Edit: I can't see Spyderco changing the hole to an O2 wrench cutout. That said, I'd not want to be cranking open O2 with an open knife, or closed with possibility it might come open. Sounds like an incident report waiting to happen.

[Kevinim82]

Good call Halfneck, my wife would agree with you thinking it’s a silly idea.

The Swiss Army knife fan in me thought it was clever.

I agree with you, a small knife is the way to go.

[Evil D]

Don't medical shears get sterilized? The ones with the blue plastic handles must be able to survive an autoclave, I wonder how FRN would handle it?

I would think a Ladybug or Dragonfly with smooth scales (no crevices for bacteria to collect) and a one piece molded handle design would work, along with H1 or LC200N.

[Doc Dan]

Yeah, a large knife would be in the way. It would drag down clothes and flop around. It would get noticed.
How about a thinner bladed a Roadie? Or, a G10 Jester with a clip?

[curlyhairedboy]

I reckon a medical-oriented tweak to one of the rescue models might work well?

[TomAiello]

Don't medical shears get sterilized? The ones with the blue plastic handles must be able to survive an autoclave, I wonder how FRN would handle it?

I think that most shears used in the field have to be discarded (by law) after one use. I think that's federal, but it might vary state to state.

[Evil D]

Don't medical shears get sterilized? The ones with the blue plastic handles must be able to survive an autoclave, I wonder how FRN would handle it?

I think that most shears used in the field have to be discarded (by law) after one use. I think that's federal, but it might vary state to state.

Not sure. I'm referring to these btw. Seems awfully wasteful to toss them out after one use.

[ladybug93]

i’m sure those can be sanitized and reused. they’re pretty cheap though. i imagine if they had to be thrown out after one use no one would ever use the leatherman raptor. i’m not in the medical field, but i carry the raptor in my fak and i know there are people that do carry and use them in the field.

[Halfneck]

Don't medical shears get sterilized? The ones with the blue plastic handles must be able to survive an autoclave, I wonder how FRN would handle it?

I would think a Ladybug or Dragonfly with smooth scales (no crevices for bacteria to collect) and a one piece molded handle design would work, along with H1 or LC200N.

Re: Medical Shears

They do not get autoclaved. Ones I carried as an EMT and Army Medic just got rinsed off with rubbing alcohol. If they were really nasty I'd just toss them & get some new ones for less than $10.

[Evil D]

Don't medical shears get sterilized? The ones with the blue plastic handles must be able to survive an autoclave, I wonder how FRN would handle it?

I would think a Ladybug or Dragonfly with smooth scales (no crevices for bacteria to collect) and a one piece molded handle design would work, along with H1 or LC200N.

Re: Medical Shears

They do not get autoclaved. Ones I carried as an EMT and Army Medic just got rinsed off with rubbing alcohol. If they were really nasty I'd just toss them & get some new ones for less than $10.

Makes sense if you're only cutting off someone's pants. They don't seem to get the same exposure as hemostats or other internally used instruments.

[MF_SRNA]

Echoing Kevin's message ...
As a fellow nurse (critical care, code team, bio-hazard, ECMO, emergency/disaster nurse, etc., blah blah blah) and future anesthesia provider, I'd like to chime in. My recommendations, based on carrying tools/knives in healthcare for years, my dream work-knife would include:

1. Oxygen-tank key-hole - It would have an E-cylinder key built into it. Many nurses already carry some kind of knife or cutting tool. As mentioned earlier, this is the same thing as an oxygen wrench, but not mentioned is that an e-cylinder tool not only opens life-saving oxygen tanks, they also open other types of medical gas tanks such as nitrous oxide and medical air (like the emergency tanks on the back of anesthesia gas machines).
- as nurses are seeing delays in access to equipment or help from other staff due to COVID guidelines. Having this tool built into a knife would open up a market that doesn't really exist (high-quality knives with healthcare people in mind). Knowing I have this special tool in my pocket (one I probably will never need to use) would give me peace of mind and warrant the decision to purchase.
- if possible, it would be best if this was incorporated into a traditional knife design and not added as a gimmicky extra piece. I agree that putting this hole where the spydy-hole exists could present the potential for injury, it is the right idea (should be steamlined). May I make the recommendation of incorporating it on the spine as a metal backspacer? If I was able to apply some of my college years studying engineering, this could be a strong solution, further reinforced by liners and scales. If I could make the further recommendation of putting the hole off-center along the spine, so that the knife handle could achieve more torque but be gripped similar to T-handled tools? This would allow gripping the knife in a way that the tool should remain in a closed position under normal circumstances. (another option: put this tool hole inside the pocket-clip, but I think this is an inferior design prone to failure).

2. Lightweight/Skeletonized liners - Any weight savings are appreciated by healthcare workers, as they are already masters of the EDC: carrying shears, hemostats, flashlight, stethoscope, knife, stethoscope, medications, NS flushes, etc.

3. Slim design (smallest profile possible from scale-to-scale) - Scrubs are made of thin and often stretch material, thick knives and their handle edges can irritate the skin over the course of a 12 hr. shift (often 13 hours).

4. Scales - flat with a slightly chamfered border (see above)

5. Deep pocket clip - The last thing we want to do is advertise to our patients, whether they be the mentally ill, a convicted felon, or a victim of stabbing is that there is an easily accessible knife in our pocket. Fun fact: public hospitals take care of inmates in standard hospital rooms (they get transferred to us when they become too sick to take care of). A pocket knife can be easily grabbed during many tasks (bending over a patient to adjust a monitor, helping them eat, helping them up to use the restroom etc.)
- Here are some real-life examples of we care about this:
Exhibit A: corrections officer has his own gun turned on him in an MRI scanner - he was murdered and the prisoner escaped https://www.deseret.com/2007/6/25/20026 ... om-custody

Exhibit B: nurses raped/tortured at gunpoint while security guard hid: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hides.html

Exhibit C: 1/4 nurses are assaulted on the job https://www.nursingworld.org/practice-p ... violence2/

-I've personally been kicked in the head and consequently received a concussion that necessitated an MRI-scan. (Sedatives aren't perfect; it's hard to notice the previous MMA fighter's shin quickly advancing towards your temple when that shin is attached to a patient you weren't assigned to. But hey, you're bound by a code of ethics and decided today might be a good idea to follow them i.e. you're walking by a patient room and notice they have their hands around their endotracheal tube and say to yourself, "Hey, maybe it's a good idea to prevent this patient from ripping that breathing tube out of their airway so they won't kill themselves".)
- point is: our jobs are risky enough, we don't need to advertise our tools could be used as weapons against us.

6. Pale-Blue / Pale-Green / Gray / Black pocket-clip options - The most common scrub colors are light blue or light green, but varies depending on the facility. See above as to why we want these tools to blend into our uniform. Black is always in style and my EMS brethren love their All-Black-Everything tools, but if a company really wanted to help in this front, they'd make available the option to purpose a light-blue, light-green, and grey pocket clips.
- it'd be really great if this could be accomplished without the color flaking off overtime i.e. cheap paint. Perhaps powder-coating or anodization could be used.

7. Easy to wipe/wash, impervious to body fluids, and resistant to rust - Unlike what some others mentioned, most tools in this trade get wiped down with a sanitizing wipe at the end of the shift (similar to chlorox wipes). The active ingredients in these wipes are often the following: bleach, isopropyl alcohol, n-Akyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chlorides, or n-Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides. I'd bet that a smooth g-10 scale to be the ideal material for scales; copper might oxidize when subjected to cleaners.
- It would be an extra cherry-on-top to be able to autoclave it, but very few healthcare workers have access to this method of cleaning. Nnonetheless would lend to the knive's marketability.

8. Reasonably priced - Not cheap, but not prohibitively expensive ($50-150). Hospital equipment has a tendency to get "borrowed", lost, broken, or just plain gross. When buying any tool for my job, I often look for the Goldilocks equivalent. An example would be buying a mid-range stethoscope: I want to be able to hear everything that's happening inside my patient well, it should be reliable, and if it disappeared, I wouldn't be out hundreds of dollars. All healthcare tools should be considered dispensible to some degree.

9. Easy and quick one-handed opening and closing - There's a reason I recommend the paramilitary 2 and it's compression lock to colleagues (it works great for me and I'm a lefty). Often we're already holding whatever it is that needs to be cut with one hand. Rarely can we afford to use one hand for any simple task during an emergency (if we could grow a 3rd arm, we would).

10. Blade Steel = high-edge retention, low corrosion, and a decent toughness (S110v, M390, s30v, etc.) Mostly we're cutting soft plastics and cardboard, but we have an appreciation for laser-sharp steel that could also pry off various types of plastic fittings/connections. Most healthcare workers leave their tools-of-the-trade in their lockers, never to be brought home. No one wants to bring home their tools that have been contaminated in blood, sweat, sputum, vomit, feces, bed-bugs, MRSA, C-Diff, prions, etc. As such, blade steel with high-edge retention is desired

11. Blade shape: pointy with a belly and a flat-grind - Don't round the tip, often we need to puncture things with a tip (if we need to cut something off of the patient, we'll use shears/scissors and never a knife). Additionally, there are times I've been grateful to have the wedge shape of a flat-ground blade; using the edge as a wedge to pry open a plastic connection (connections on gastric-tubes, various respiratory tubing/connections, etc.)

12. Full-size blade - Just shy of 3 inches (to avoid any legal trouble in differing jurisdictions/states and to make it less-intimidating to the knife-averse).


If I could take a production Spyderco knife and incorporate these features, I'd start by looking at the paramilitary 2 or 3: make the scales thinner and smoother, make the blade just less than 3 inches, have a deep-pocket clip available in many colors, and incorporate an E-cylinder hole somewhere. To add a little flash to it, laser-engrave the scales with a Caduceus symbol or Red-Cross symbol.

I think if you could provide this to us, you'll find difficulty keeping these stocked and on the shelves (word spreads fast in healthcare). This would the gold-stand healthcare knife to which all others are compared to. Not to mention the enormous, but softly spoken appreciation from the healthcare community. This knife could: 1. make our lives easier, 2. help provide better care to our patients, 3. bring us an extra level of protection and safety.

While I'm hopeful something will come from this long-winded soapbox distraction away from my anesthesia studies, I'm not holding my breath. Sal or Spyderco, if you do read this and are interested in my thoughts, please find a way to email me through my account registration. It's likely I won't be checking this forum often. I'm a huge fan of your products: the paramilitary 2 has been my go-to healthcare knife for years. I've used it care for victims of Hurricane Harvey and it has been my companion in many life-saving tasks. Unfortunately, I've replaced it this month with a thinner knife by a competitor (it fulfills some of the characteristics listed above that the paramilitary 2 does not).

Thanks for coming to my TED-talk.




Name redacted: SRNA, BSN, and some other fancy titles