Urban Ti Elmax

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Urban Ti Elmax, yes or no?

Yes
19
73%
No
7
27%
 
Total votes: 26

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Doc Dan
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Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:41 pm

I have never understood why the Urban was never offered in Titanium with an Elmax blade as were the Pingo and Squeak. It it were made well, this would be the ultimate pocket knife.

What do you all think?


Also, it would make an awesome Forum knife if the price isn’t too bad.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby ChrisinHove » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:27 am

I think high cost / poor sales killed the previous Ti slip-its, seriously damaging the prospects for a Ti Urban.

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:19 am

ChrisinHove wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:27 am
I think high cost / poor sales killed the previous Ti slip-its, seriously damaging the prospects for a Ti Urban.
Yes, and when they lowered the prices to earthly levels they sold out.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby elena86 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:55 am

Yesssss ! I would kill for one :eek:
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Dazen » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:01 am

Yes, and how about an Elmax Ti Roadie to go with it!

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Nate » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:44 am

I'm a definite maybe. Love the idea, afraid I wouldn't like the price.

The only ti I've sprung for was the PITS at a deep discount after it was disco'd (over 60% off msrp, iirc). Glad I picked one up, but it wasn't even on my radar at regular street price.

For me, frn or g10 sprints/exclusives would be more likely to be instant buys. If Maniago can get things sorted, obviously. The issues with the AEB-L sprint are concerning, even if for the most part they were minor/fixable.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Mzen » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:29 am

From what I've seen it's all about the prices, all of those TI variants went for some pretty wacky prices compared to what they offered.

Nowadays I think that it's even harder to get into that market since many huge and not so huge Chinese makers are providing high-quality Titatinum models with great steel and fit-and-finish for a fraction of the cost... I seriously doubt that Spyderco could offer TI for less than double the price of said companies.

I would argue that there is definitely an audience for that kind of model here in Europe (me included), but if the price isn't enticing enough I do not think it is even worth trying to break into that section of the market. I'm shaking in my boots just thinking about how much the future Lil' Native slipjoint is going to cost, taking into account that the cheapest Roadie I can find right now is going for €70, which is around $78...

It's tough being a Spyderco fan in Europe, that's for sure :(

But on a brighter note, I reckon that the Heinnie Haynes UKPK was incredibly well priced for such a well-rounded package, so maybe there might still be some hope left for us!

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:49 am

I like the idea, but don't see it happening. The AEB-L turned out to be a bit of a flop. If the quality could be done like that of the HH UKPK, I believe it would sell very well. But is Maniago capable of the quality from Golden??
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:25 am

Maniago has been hit and miss. I thought they got sorted out, but then the Coyote happened. That was a model very much looked forward to by so many of us and what they did with it was, well, less than desirable.

However, the Ti models seem to have been okay. The Urban is the perfect Urban pocket knife and if it can be made with quality like we expect from Spyderco, at a reasonable price,then it would be awesome. Perhaps they should seriously consider moving production to Golden.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby TomAiello » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:58 am

I'd buy an Urban Ti Elmax, but honestly I'd probably rather have another run of K390.

My AEB-L wasn't bad. It's weird to me that it wasn't as well received as the K390 in terms of F&F. It's especially weird because Maniago seems to me to be producing the best slip joints on the market right now. I have been on a slip joint kick lately and I've picked up (in addition to the UKPK, Urban and Pingo that I already had in several variants) quite a few of them, including Benchmade, MKM, Lionsteel, Viper and FOX, and the Maniago makers are definitely the stars for both value and quality. I can't fathom why people are buying the BM Proper when the FOX Libar/Livri is available at a much lower price and a much higher quality.

Do we know who made the AEB-L Urban? Was it the same people who produced the K390? I know that the Maniago makers do a lot of cooperating (see the MKM project), and that Spyderco has a relationship with Lionsteel (see the LionSpy). Are the Urban runs all made in the same facility?

My dream urban would be something like s110v and Ziricote, for whatever that's worth. :)

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Mzen » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:25 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:25 am
Perhaps they should seriously consider moving production to Golden.
That would be the dream for me, the HH UKPK has completely converted me to slippies made in Golden, but I really doubt they have the capacity to produce so many different types of knives there... They undoubtedly have their hands full with a whole bunch of Sprint Runs and unannounced projects, not to mention all the normal production Golden models. There has to be a limit to how many balls they can juggle at the same time, which is where places like the Maniago factory come in handy.

It is also probably easier when it comes to shipping and logistics, it makes sense to have your slipjoint main factory placed right in the middle of Europe since we are likely the folks who buy them the most. I've also previously mentioned my displeasure with the quality of the Maniago factory many times, but I'm hoping that something can be done to improve that, they're just people like us after all and they hopefully want to deliver the best product that they can, but that is something to worry about at a later time after this nasty pandemic is dealt with.

Obviously this is all speculation on my part, so grain of salt and all that :p

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby sal » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:44 am

The cost is prohibitive. They sell well at prices that is a loss for us. Not a good business decision. Even the Titanium models that we made in China were not good sellers. Competing with the Chinese is challenging and that's how they've taken over the manufacturing of many of the world's products. I believe it will be a bigger problem in the future.

The current COVID-19 crisis clearly demonstrates how dependent the US is on China for our medicines. Not a secure position to be in. My hope is that Americans will wise up to the current situation and build our basic needs like drugs in the US. But my confidence in this happening is not great. It seems that most people will jump at the short term attraction of cheaper goods, with little thought for the future.

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:14 am

sal wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:44 am
The cost is prohibitive. They sell well at prices that is a loss for us. Not a good business decision. Competing with the Chinese is challenging and that's how they've taken over the manufacturing of many of the world's products. I believe it will be a bigger problem in the future.

The current COVID-19 crisis clearly demonstrates how dependent the US is on China for our medicines. Not a secure position to be in. My hope is that Americans will wise up to the current situation and build our basic needs like drugs in the US. But my confidence in this happening is not great. It seems that most people will jump at the short term attraction of cheaper goods, with little thought for the future.

sal
Hi Sal hate to disagree but it is not really a matter of being cheap.

Facts of the matter are plain and simple large corporations and paid for politicians sold America to the Chinese and other countries long ago.

We The people generally work for our living and exist within a society of their manipulation. Corporations in America enjoy the rights and protections of actual human beings without consequence for their actions and that includes the ability to funnel large sums of money and favors to politicians.

Like you I hope to see this remedied and hope this COVID-19 will wake people up but also doubt the movers and shakers are going to give up their high standards of living selling the U.S. out has brought them.

As for buying luxury items like knives from China? Heck I won’t even buy Spyderco knives made there!

If I am going to spend my hard earned money then I demand quality and I will spend more for made in America when and where I can.

This is why I purchase Spyderco Knives, seriously who needs a $200.00 plus pocket knife? Let alone more than one?

Holds hand up and says Make mine Spyderco preferably Golden made models.

I hope Spyderco moves everything to Golden and with the advent of SPY27, to overtake VG-10, CPM-S45VN, Maxamet, Cruwear well why the heck not? Certainly there is an H1 equivalent for Salt series I have read about them but do not know if they can be made here.

Okay so charge me 10 to 20 dollars more for my next knife because we have to rebuild America’s interests again, if that is what it takes fine! Just tell me this is why and I will gladly donate that extra money for such a worthy cause.

The recent price bump by dealers have no such explanation so I objected to that. It just came off as we can so we are.

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby jpm2 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:18 pm

I have no interest in elmax, or Ti.

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby sal » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:00 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:14 am
sal wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:44 am
The cost is prohibitive. They sell well at prices that is a loss for us. Not a good business decision. Competing with the Chinese is challenging and that's how they've taken over the manufacturing of many of the world's products. I believe it will be a bigger problem in the future.

The current COVID-19 crisis clearly demonstrates how dependent the US is on China for our medicines. Not a secure position to be in. My hope is that Americans will wise up to the current situation and build our basic needs like drugs in the US. But my confidence in this happening is not great. It seems that most people will jump at the short term attraction of cheaper goods, with little thought for the future.

sal
Hi Sal hate to disagree but it is not really a matter of being cheap.

Facts of the matter are plain and simple large corporations and paid for politicians sold America to the Chinese and other countries long ago.

Okay so charge me 10 to 20 dollars more for my next knife because we have to rebuild America’s interests again, if that is what it takes fine! Just tell me this is why and I will gladly donate that extra money for such a worthy cause
Hi Whatever,

I'm sorry, I believe you are not correct. Companies went to China because they can offer products for much less cost and still make more profit. And the American worker runs to give them their money. WalMArt is proof of that. Only corrupt politicians may take advantage of Chinese opportunity.

It's not 10 or 20 dollars. The value of the Yuan is 6 to one over the dollar. That means 6 times as much, not 10 or 20 dollars.. We can charge less for Chinese made knives and still make more profit than we can on USA made. I can buy a knife made in China for less than I pay for the steel in the US.

sal

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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:04 pm

^^Deep info. Thanks Sal, info you didn't even have to reveal to us.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:02 pm

We can always dream of the Elmax Ti Urban. Would an Elmax G10 be more feasible?

Also, what about the chances of production in India or Vietnam? India has a huge economy and as many people as China.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:43 pm

Dazen wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:01 am
Yes, and how about an Elmax Ti Roadie to go with it!
Sorry Doc, but I don’t think you’ll drum up much interest for a Ti Urban, especially given Sal’s economics lesson. :) A new run of a Ti UKPK based on Eric’s CQI updates, or this absolutely phenomenal idea for a Ti Roadie — now we’re talking!

Sal, it’s not all about the numbers. If it were, we should all just hang up our hats and go home. It’s about how you go about doing what you’re doing, and all the heart and soul we know you, your family and your crew put into your products that keep us buying them. It’s not all about the price tag or even the item itself, it’s also about the story behind what you’re buying and if you believe in what they believe in. We believe in you guys. :)
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:59 pm

Elmax seems to have captured peoples imagine but the truth is all the "3rd gen powder has finer Carbides" stuff was all hype and mythbusted with micrographs taken last year by Larrin.

What folks were experiencing compared to S30V was
It just had less of the smaller, harder vanadium carbides and more larger, softer chromium carbides that aren't as difficult to sharpen with more common alumina ceramic abrasive.

From what I'm seeing, there are more interesting new comers that will fill the role better than Elmax for edge junkies like S45VN and SPY27 for mid range steels with enhanced stability and edge taking characteristics over Elmax which also costs more to import.

It should also be noted the s30V of today is not the same steel that folks had issues with when it was first released. Since then, the entire knife industry has made improvements from how it's made by Crucible to how Niagra Specialty Metals rolls the steel to how Compaines like Spyderco have improved with manufacturering to how the end user sharpens and has access to better sharpening tools and knowledge.

It is often thought that merits will speak for themselves without giving them attention yet the updated information seems to be moving at a trickle and held back by what folks experienced in the past.



Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:41 pm
I have never understood why the Urban was never offered in Titanium with an Elmax blade as were the Pingo and Squeak. It it were made well, this would be the ultimate pocket knife.

What do you all think?


Also, it would make an awesome Forum knife if the price isn’t too bad.
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Re: Urban Ti Elmax

Postby Cambertree » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:52 am

Thanks for the info, Sal.

Personally, I think Spyderco was ahead of their time with the whole modern slipjoint thing, and that some of the slipit variants of the past might be more successful today.

Any issues with my AEB-L Urban mainly amounted to fit and finish issues, and I was able to fix most of them when I initially resharpened it. I like the knife. One thing to mention about it is the whole point of AEB-L is it will take a very thin, acute edge angle and grind, so if you want to see what the AEB-L Urban is capable of, it's worth thinning it right out before you dismiss it.

The K390 Urban is just something else though. Along with the HAP40 Wharny Delica, these two are my current standard work knife pair.

I did notice a little bit of flex around the pivot area the other day, when I was really bearing down on the knife to score into a stack of heavy dense industrial cardboard fittings, designed to protect pallets in transit.

This is not to be critical, as it's a credit to the Urban that a design intended as a lightweight EDC utility knife acquits itself so well as a work knife where it's utilised maybe 50-100 times a day for various tasks.

But yeah, I would be interested to see the Urban or UKPK in some more rigid handle materials, to match some of the future sprint steel versions. If not Ti, then G10 with chamfered corners sounds good. I'm guessing G10 might hold a more rigid D-pivot area than FRN?

I hope both the Urban and the UKPK models continue to be used for sprint steels so we get more great knives like the K390 Urban, the S110V UKPK and the AEB-L Urban.


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