Lil Manix

[Wartstein]

Not sure how well the ergos would scale down on the manix design, but I'd love to see some smaller cbbl knives. I prefer the cbbl to the compression lock and think it is seriously underused.

+1

It´s such a great (and totally ambidextrious) lock, just SOME more CBBL knives would be nice...

[BLJace]

I'll put up my blast shield in advance of this idea.

If the CBBL won't work on a small one...

Compression lock?

*ducks*

I love the idea of a mini manix, but if we add in the compression lock aren't we coming close to a mini shaman?

actually... i want a mini in both.

Not even slightly. The Shaman and Manix are wildly different designs, regardless of lock type.

They are different when they at their respective sizes i don't disagree there.

However, to put in the compression lock they would have to change the whole liner set up. Once you shrink it down you're probably going to lose a bit on where the last finger would rest. Meaning the handle of the "mini manix" will probably go towards being a little straighter. Take away the jimping, leaf blade, and add in some rounded scales it sounds like a mini shaman to me.

That's just the direction my mind took me. I'm far from an expert.

[DougC-3]

I'll take one! I love the CBBL and Manix ergos, and I think the ergos could be very similar in a well designed smaller one.

[rabbitanarchy14]

i still really want a smaller cbbl knife. i know its a diff subject but my perfect knife would be a pm2 with cbbl.

[Wartstein]

I'll take one! I love the CBBL and Manix ergos, and I think the ergos could be very similar in a well designed smaller one.

Said it before, I´d generally love to see many more CBBL knives!

But I think for me (and probably many with my L to XL handsize or above) a Lil Manix could have the "Para 3 flaw":

Much like the PM 2 handle design gives my hand a tight, but very good grip behind the choil for all my fingers, the same, but scaled down handle design does not work at all on the Para 3 for me.

I am afraid that would be true for a "Lil Manix" as well: The Manix 2 has perfect ergos for me behind the choil, but it is like made for my hand and the grip area should not be any shorter. So I guess a Lil Manix would, just like the Para 3, be an overall comparable bulky and long handled knife (relativ to the cutting edge!!) but still people with bigger hands would not get enough space on the actual handle but have to choke up...

That being said: For smaller hands it might very well be a great option!

[Wartstein]

i still really want a smaller cbbl knife. i know its a diff subject but my perfect knife would be a pm2 with cbbl.

... that would be great. And for me additionally with thinner blade stock and an Endura family like a bit reenforced tip... :rolleyes: (end of off topic )

[Pancake]

I would like to try CBBL lock....but the current models just don't interested me that much.
Manix 2 has a lackluster cutting edge.
Manix 2 XL has weird pocket clip placement.
And....that's it, no more CBBL models. I would like to see some more in the future, but in the big knife format, like 4 inch blade, not some mini knife....maybe I start another thread ..

[rabbitanarchy14]

i still really want a smaller cbbl knife. i know its a diff subject but my perfect knife would be a pm2 with cbbl.

... that would be great. And for me additionally with thinner blade stock and an Endura family like a bit reenforced tip... :rolleyes: (end of off topic )

i agree. ok to fix the size issue for you would you be ok with a 2.9 blade like the delica and no choil. i would be ok with that as long as the edge is closer to my finger than a delica is, as well as lil manix. yes there are other knives like this size, (polywog, dodo) but i dont like funky knives, if they were normally shaped (delica, para's) i would have bought one.

[Wartstein]

i agree. ok to fix the size issue for you would you be ok with a 2.9 blade like the delica and no choil. i would be ok with that as long as the edge is closer to my finger than a delica is, as well as lil manix. yes there are other knives like this size, (polywog, dodo) but i dont like funky knives, if they were normally shaped (delica, para's) i would have bought one.

A Mini Manix with a 2.9" blade, but NO choil would basically be the current Manix, but without the handle part of the choil and without the blade part of the choil.
So: Same actual grip on the handle, same edge length (since the edge would go back all the way to the handle), but much shorter overall.
Certainly a very cool option that I personally would buy in a heartbeat.
BUT: I think it would be hard or even impossible to make, since the CBBL requires some choil in the blade due to the locks location in the handle?

[wrdwrght]

As a Manix devotee—and now told by Sal himself that our suggestions for models, materials, and sizes are wanted—a scaled-down Manix2 would have me curious, at least.

Possessing several Native5s, which I’ve playfully regarded as mini mini-Manixes, I didn’t foresee needing a Lil’ Native midlock until I had it in my hand.

But should a Lil’ Manix materialize, I would consider buying it only if the blade is satin-finished and has a choil, the handle is G10, the clip is an hourglass, and the lock is CBBL.

[JRinFL]

I’d rather see an exciting new design incorporating the CBBL instead of an iteration of what we’ve seen before. I’m just weary of the same old, same old just slightly larger or slightly smaller.

[DougC-3]

I'll take one! I love the CBBL and Manix ergos, and I think the ergos could be very similar in a well designed smaller one.

Said it before, I´d generally love to see many more CBBL knives!

But I think for me (and probably many with my L to XL handsize or above) a Lil Manix could have the "Para 3 flaw":

Much like the PM 2 handle design gives my hand a tight, but very good grip behind the choil for all my fingers, the same, but scaled down handle design does not work at all on the Para 3 for me.

I am afraid that would be true for a "Lil Manix" as well: The Manix 2 has perfect ergos for me behind the choil, but it is like made for my hand and the grip area should not be any shorter. So I guess a Lil Manix would, just like the Para 3, be an overall comparable bulky and long handled knife (relativ to the cutting edge!!) but still people with bigger hands would not get enough space on the actual handle but have to choke up...

That being said: For smaller hands it might very well be a great option!

The Chaparral is an lot like a scaled down Manix in overall shape and proportions but very thin (one of its best points). It has a comfortable 4 finger grip if you use the choil and a comfortable 3 finger grip behind the choil. Its blade is almost as long as the Para 3's but the handle is much thinner and somewhat shorter. But because of the Chaparral handle design you don't get the uncomfortable 3 and a part finger grip as with the Para 3, if that's what you're talking about. I have the same problem with the PM2, with the butt bump falling right in the middle of my little finger in the behind the choil grip (XXL palms), but the Manix and Chaparral eliminate the problem for me with their tapered and down-curved tail ends. Point being that I think a Lil Manix would have a comfortable grip if it were proportioned like the Manix and Chaparral. It would have to be made thicker than the Chappie of course to allow room for the ball bearing lock and would be more tank-like as is the Lil Native. If you seat the Chappie butt in your palm, you'll see that it would be very easy to pull down the ball, as Evil D intimated.

[Wartstein]

I'll take one! I love the CBBL and Manix ergos, and I think the ergos could be very similar in a well designed smaller one.

Said it before, I´d generally love to see many more CBBL knives!

But I think for me (and probably many with my L to XL handsize or above) a Lil Manix could have the "Para 3 flaw":

Much like the PM 2 handle design gives my hand a tight, but very good grip behind the choil for all my fingers, the same, but scaled down handle design does not work at all on the Para 3 for me.

I am afraid that would be true for a "Lil Manix" as well: The Manix 2 has perfect ergos for me behind the choil, but it is like made for my hand and the grip area should not be any shorter. So I guess a Lil Manix would, just like the Para 3, be an overall comparable bulky and long handled knife (relativ to the cutting edge!!) but still people with bigger hands would not get enough space on the actual handle but have to choke up...

That being said: For smaller hands it might very well be a great option!

The Chaparral is an lot like a scaled down Manix in overall shape and proportions but very thin (one of its best points). It has a comfortable 4 finger grip if you use the choil and a comfortable 3 finger grip behind the choil. Its blade is almost as long as the Para 3's but the handle is much thinner and somewhat shorter. But because of the Chaparral handle design you don't get the uncomfortable 3 and a part finger grip as with the Para 3, if that's what you're talking about. I have the same problem with the PM2, with the butt bump falling right in the middle of my little finger in the behind the choil grip (XXL palms), but the Manix and Chaparral eliminate the problem for me with their tapered and down-curved tail ends. Point being that I think a Lil Manix would have a comfortable grip if it were proportioned like the Manix and Chaparral. It would have to be made thicker than the Chappie of course to allow room for the ball bearing lock and would be more tank-like as is the Lil Native. If you seat the Chappie butt in your palm, you'll see that it would be very easy to pull down the ball, as Evil D intimated.

That´s exactly what I am talking about! The Chap and Sage do it all right for a small knife handle-wise by lengthening the part of the handle where the fingers land as much as possible. Not so the Para 3.
I´d go so far as to say that Spyderco, master of ergos and slicey blades, perhaps would never have designed a knife like the Para 3 (unnecessarely shortened grip area at the actual handle and superfat blade for such a small knife), if they would have done so from scratch. I have a feeling the Para 3 does exist in the current form, only because PM2 (and Millie) were already there, and it is a shrunken version of the PM 2 (the Para 3 still is a cool knife, no doubt, but imho not optimized for a small folder).

I think a shrunken Manix with the exact same handle shape as the Manix 2 (just smaller) would have the same "problem" as the Para 3 handlewise: The Manix also has some "hook" at the end of the handle, which feels great and finger hugging on the regular Manix, but would shorten the grip area too much in a shrunken version.
So a Mini-Manix should have a handle that is rather flat at the end (much like the Chap or Sage handle...)

[zuludelta]

The Q Ball is probably the closest thing there is to a "Li'l Manix" right now. I have one and I think it's a solid knife—very good ergos, and a delightfully slicey Wharncliffe blade. It feels very much like a scaled-down Manix 2 in hand, which makes sense since it's also designed by Eric Glesser.

If Spyderco ever makes a Q Ball 2, I hope they replace the plain ball bearing lock with a caged ball bearing lock (since the lock can be a little difficult to disengage with wet hands or when wearing work gloves). Though I guess that defeats the whole design conceit, since the Q Ball name is an explicit reference to the knife's exposed ceramic ball bearing.

[MichaelScott]

It is interesting to read about the supposed inadequacies of the Para 3 handle. There are many of us Para 3 owners who consider that knife’s ergonomics and handle to blade ratio to be excellent. Just wanted to speak up in one of my favorite Spyderco knife’s defense.

[Wartstein]

It is interesting to read about the supposed inadequacies of the Para 3 handle. There are many of us Para 3 owners who consider that knife’s ergonomics and handle to blade ratio to be excellent. Just wanted to speak up in one of my favorite Spyderco knife’s defense.

Michael, as one who does not consider the Para 3 as one of Spydercos best designs: Sure it is still a cool knife, and it could very well be ME who is missing something - exactly because so many others love the design! (And I certainly still take it over most small folders of other brands)

Still and again: I think without the existence of the PM 2 and the goal to make a shrunken version of it, Spyderco would not have necessarely choosen some Para 3 features for a small EDC folder. Its overall package is rather bulky, wide and thick, but still people with somewhat larger hand can´t get a good four finger grip on the actual handle, despite the overall handle length would be more than enough for that, if shaped without that PM2 "hook" and more like a Sage or Chap handle. The blade is crazy thick for a small knife and by that less slicey (even the "hard use" Manix blade is a lot thinner), but still you can´t really carelessly abuse the knife as a true beater, cause the tip remains pretty delicate.
And it is not even really light: The linerless Para 3 LW is still heavier than the linered Delica, which gives you about the same amount of edge and a really generous handle.
And the blade to handle ratio is pretty standard, isn´t it? Para 3 closed 4.29, blade 2.92. For comparison Salt 2 ("linerless Delica") closed 4.25, blade 3.00 and a lot lighter.

Regardless, that´s just my 2 c, and I am glad that YOU found the model you love in the Para 3!! :)
I just wanted to underline: Should there ever be a Lil Manix, I really hope they do NOT just shrink the current Manix 2 handle, but do shape it differently (with for a smaller knife optimized, longer, "hookless" grip area). If not, that would kill the Lil Manix for me just as the shrunken PM2 design kills the Para 3 for me...

[Sharp Guy]

@Wartstein....one thing you need to consider is that we all have different hand sizes. The Para 3 fits my hand perfectly. There are plenty of other great choices for those that find the handle on the Para 3 to be less than optimal. PM2, Sage series, Natives etc. Telling the world every chance you get that the Para 3 is poor design isn't helpful to a lot people (like myself) who might find the Para 3 handle to be perfect for them. "Crazy thick" blade is a bit ridiculous too. I like thinner blade stock too but I've never had any issues cutting anything with a Para 3 or any other knife with similar blade thickness.

As far as Spyderco making a Lil' Manix that's not actually smaller, what would be the point of that?

[JMM]

I like the idea in general... what about using the Bolt-Lock (ala Sage3) instead of the CBBL approach....? I realize that would be a big departure but, I think it would resolve the concerns stated above. I love the Bolt-Lock more than any other Spyderco lock, for the life of me I don't understand why it hasn't ever been used outside of the two Sage3 models.

Cheers,

John

[MichaelScott]

@wartstein Sharp Guy makes good points. Also I might refer you to some reputable reviewers like Nick Shabazz or the late Boy Scout and their take on how the Para 3 differs from the Para Military 2.

[SubMicron]

I want a Lil' Manix and a Lil' Para