Spyderco Forums

One of the things I like about steels like Cruwear, 4V, HAP40 and Vtoku2 is that they are less likely to get dings or chips when accidentally hitting something hard. In your experience, which Spyderco stainless (excluding H1, since I am quite fond of FFG) is most resistant to dings & chips?

I'm pretty partial to non-stainless steels as well, but I've had good luck with lc200n in this regard. Granted I only have it currently on one knife (the native 5 salt), but I've used it outdoors in the woods, on rocky riverbanks, etc many times. Never chipped an edge.

Im thinking it might be between s30v and s90v.

Isnt zdp 189 technically stainless? If so its that, but Im not counting it.

I have had edge damage on lc200n.

VooDooChild wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:04 am

Im thinking it might be between s30v and s90v.

Isnt zdp 189 technically stainless? If so its that, but Im not counting it.

I have had edge damage on lc200n.

On paper m390 is a little tougher than s30v at equal hardness (according to Larrin's data, at least). I have managed to chip m390, but that was on a factory edge, so probably not a fair assessment of the steel. I don't have any experience with s90v to compare.

VG-10 or LC200N?

I honestly don't see a big difference between M390 and CPM S90V.

VG-10 I have hit staples with it and no chipping.

I have had tips snap of S30V and have had chips come out of S35VN blades. S90V however has proven pretty darn tough.

I assumed edge damage meant chipping and/or rolling. I have definitely rolled part of the edge on lc200n and vg10 before.

LC200N is quite tough (according to test charts and use), but not that strong. It tends to roll/ plasctically deform, but I have chipped it. It's not as damage nor wear resistant as CPM Cruwear, but quite good. Sharpening response on both is excellent, an important part of 'the best steel for you' equation.

One can damage any steel, super or not, so quantification is key as well as our field reports.

Sandvik and some Uddeholm steels tend to be quite tough too. IIRC there is some correlation between grain size/ structure and toughness in both powder and ingot milled steels. Of course various foundry practices and chemistry provide a range of characteristics in various steels.

Stainless is a problematic label, where chromium acts differently in different steels and other chemistries (e.g. nitrogen) can play such important roles.

Cruwear for my general use is plenty stainless. I love LC200N for when I'm in or on the salt water or will be wet for some time.

I am not trying to be a smartass, but this is all just anecdotal evidence. If you don't hit the same object with the same force with same edge angle on different steels, it is just a one person experience, but not facts.
From Larrin toughness testing, LC200N and AEB-L are above everything stainless what Spyderco uses.

And then, steel is only a part of equation, very important is edge angle. You can have ZDP with some obtuse angle that is not going to chip, but AEB-L with some really low angle with chips.
EDIT: I can count on my one hand how many times I chip a knife. One in S30V Chief, I hit a spine on my Opinel. One chip with K390 on Police, I hit a big stample in cardboard.
I am not counting broken points, those are just thing that will happen.

It is no surprise that I will advocate for Bainitic heat treatment. This balances the problem of the blade myth, it's either hard or tough but not both.

Even as I write this, I am willing to say that given the right conditions, I can make a bainite heat treated blade, chip, bend or break. but this question is about stain resistant steels not those capable of bainite. There is no perfect steel. Some will perform better than others, but always within limitations. A good steel will have limitations that are well outside the ability of the operator to exceed them.

Controlling the operator of the tool is much more effective. Once upon a time a good friend of mine and I were on an Alabama hillside testing some katana on dogwood trees. It was spring and the sap was flowing so the trees were wet and soft. He steps up and gets his sword about halfway through a 4 inch tree. I cut and lop it clean through. Were the swords bad?

The difference wasn't the steel or the heat treatment but technique. He chopped like it was an axe. I sliced by virtue of training. It's best to not push or pull a blade into bad circumstances, and then judge the blade and not the operator. Change how you cut with it. Then learn to care for it if you make an error.

Catamount123 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:35 am

One of the things I like about steels like Cruwear, 4V, HAP40 and Vtoku2 is that they are less likely to get dings or chips when accidentally hitting something hard. In your experience, which Spyderco stainless (excluding H1, since I am quite fond of FFG) is most resistant to dings & chips?

I think Mike Blue makes some excellent points further down in the thread.... I have NOT had the experience you have with Vtoku2 for sure, I found it's edge retention and toughness to be quite poor. But based on your question, I would think either something from the M390 family or S30V (or s35vn) are reasonably decent at all the things you are looking for, but that's simply based on my rather limited experience. I'm mostly a tool steel guy

This is the Spyderco least prone to accidental edge damage:

LOL. Now I want to ask Larrin to change his graphs and scales. No more time or temperature or HRC scale data. Every steel needs a multiple regression against all types of body hair, copper staples, steel staples, cardboard, paper, my favorite edge destroying test is the common postal envelope, cheese, sausage, mylar tape, hundred mile an hour tape, climbing rope, tinder sticks from fir, oak, etc.

Then the potential owner can place themselves in the middle of the circle and see where the best edge falls inside the collected fail points based on all the activities that they are likely to engage in.

Nah, wouldn't work. I can't exist without more than one knife and that kind of information would lead you to buy only one and use it lifelong.

Thought it'd be helpful to actually see Larrin's data here:



Resistance to all types of edge damage would presumably be best in steels that are tougher at higher hardnesses/strength, right? Based on that, AEB-L, Niomax, and Nitro-V would stand out. Of the more readily available steels, CPM-154, m390 and s35vn seem to have decent toughness at higher hardnesses. No data on s90v here, though.

JuPaul wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:02 pm

Thought it'd be helpful to actually see Larrin's data here:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/mg6iREM.jpg

Resistance to all types of edge damage would presumably be best in steels that are tougher at higher hardnesses/strength, right? Based on that, AEB-L, Niomax, and Nitro-V would stand out. Of the more readily available steels, CPM-154, m390 and s35vn seem to have decent toughness at higher hardnesses. No data on s90v here, though.

Thanks.

Note that Z-Finit is equivalent to LC200N.

Cool graphs. Thanks to Larrin for pulling the data together and Julia for posting it.

Every steel that has more than one data point showing a trend, demonstrates that the harder the steel the less toughness.

I think you'll get more mileage out of a steeper edge angle (40 inclusive vs 30 for example) than sweating the details of this steel vs that. VG10 will do you just fine along with a slew of others. If edge damage is a major concern (meaning something you actually deal with and need to fix often) I would look at steel that are easier to grind and easier to sharpen so that when the time comes to fix damage you're not spending eternity doing it. This is why I prefer H1/LC200N for serrations and why I'm interested in trying out "lower end" steels and even some carbon steels that are known to be easy to grind and sharpen.

Probably BD1 or 8cr13mov

The 52100 Military has taken cringeworthy knocks without any sign of damage. It is definitely better in that regard than my stainless knives.

Edit: sorry see now the question was about SS.

LC200N has surpassed all of my expectations. I have opened cans, banged it against tool boxes and all sorts of other shenanigans.

It has seen no severe damage. Anything sustained, was fixable within moments on the SM brown rods.