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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:51 am
by Jazz
Evil D wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:02 am
All I'm saying is if you climber guys ruin this knife and it doesn't come out I'll find where you live and poop on your door step.

:D

Seriously, if you don’t want to be prepared and carry a knife, so be it. That’s your prerogative.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:55 am
by sal
Eee wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:48 pm
Sal, one quick question about the Rock jumper. One handed closing seems important to the design. My muscle memory for backlocks is based around catching the blade on the kick with my finger, will that still be possible with the design you are working up?
Hi Eee,

Yes, That was a very important part of the design.

sal

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:58 am
by Evil D
Jazz wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:51 am
Evil D wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:02 am
All I'm saying is if you climber guys ruin this knife and it doesn't come out I'll find where you live and poop on your door step.

:D

Seriously, if you don’t want to be prepared and carry a knife, so be it. That’s your prerogative.



I mean it seems like a pretty straight forward discussion. If you're dumb enough to cut a rope that you or someone else is hanging from I'd call that natural selection at work. Well, natural selection or murder. Either way it's not like ONLY climbers can or will but this knife.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:06 am
by sal
I still think it s an interesting discussion and I respect everyone's "point of view". but please keep in mind that each of the concepts are points of view. One person does not . in my opinion contain absolute knowledge that everyone must adhere to. Politics demonstrates this clearly. I really appreciate knowing Rob's, Tom's, Warsteins and others points of view and I thank you for sharing them.

Technically, a "Rock-Jumper" is a species of African bird.

sal

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:54 am
by Wartstein
sal wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:06 am
I still think it s an interesting discussion and I respect everyone's "point of view". but please keep in mind that each of the concepts are points of view. One person does not . in my opinion contain absolute knowledge that everyone must adhere to. Politics demonstrates this clearly. I really appreciate knowing Rob's, Tom's, Warsteins and others points of view and I thank you for sharing them.

Technically, a "Rock-Jumper" is a species of African bird.

sal

Wise words, as usual, Sal.

I certainly respect the opinion of each of my fellow climbers world wide, even if my personal thoughts or the one in my familiar climbing community might differ.

Just wanted to make clear and let you know: Imho generally there certainly IS a market and need for something like the Rock Jumper in the climbing community, and I could list many (mostly emergency) scenarios in which a climber would thank god to have a good knife readily at hand.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:00 am
by PeaceInOurTime
I've never rock climbed before and I have no plans to in the future, but this knife may be exactly what I'm looking for (especially if it ever becomes a salt model ;) ).

What really has my attention is that the Rock Jumper will have a full edged blade while still being a backlock with the ability to release the lock and have the "kick" rest against your finger while closing. Add in a SE wharncliffe (hopefully FFG) blade and I'll have no choice but to get one!

I don't have a strong preference on whether or not its linerless. Are there any pics of a prototype?

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:29 am
by sal
I don't think that this model will only be purchased by climbers. That was never the intent. The original purpose for the design was to see if I could create a lock-back that brought the handle to the edge and still retained the closing feature of dropping the kick to the finger when closing, as Eee and Peacetime questioned. Then a size had to be determined, then an ergonomic handle had to be developed, Blade shape selected, a name, which is always challenging.

But the issue was a "snag free" lock-back with no sharpening choil, finger choil or kick to potentially impede a cut.

sal

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:31 am
by sal
Hi Peacetime,

Pics will have to wait for the "Reveal" and we have a delivery time frame.

sal

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:47 am
by PeaceInOurTime
Thanks for the good news, Sal! I'll be patient :)

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:54 pm
by thewoodpecker
Excited by what promises to be another excellent design. Back lock Wharncliffe for the win.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:43 pm
by Wartstein
I am really, really excited for this model !

For me it´s kind of the knife coming to life that I advocated for in the "backlock Carribean" thread I started once (most important feature here: Edge all the way to the handle...) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84657&p=1353417#p1353417

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm
by TazKristi
As many of you know, members of the Spyderco Crew have a vast number of passions outside of our world of knives. One of our crew members, Hilary, is a passionate rock climber. I spoke with her about this thread and she was kind enough to transcribe a story that she told me. I think it's relevant to this discussion and I hope it brings another viewpoint into consideration.

Hilary’s Climbing Story
"I’ve been climbing for almost 10 years now. I used to be the type of person who, when asked if I carry a knife, would make some comment about how if you need a knife while climbing, you’re already in deep trouble. I didn’t carry one for the longest time, but finally gave in and hung a little serrated Ladybug Salt from my nut tool so it would be there with me for multipitch and trad climbing adventures ‘just in case’. I made this decision after talking to the legend Hans Florine one year at an Outdoor Retailer show where he showed me the Spyderco Ladybug he always carries when climbing.

I’m a big fan of climbing in Red Rock Canyon outside of Las Vegas, Nevada. I have made at least one climbing trip a year there since I moved to Colorado 6 years ago. As much as I really love it, I’ve managed to have more days go horribly wrong in that park than any other climbing destination. The approaches are often unclear and the descents are even more so. Getting lost in some way is almost a given. So when my climbing partner and I made it to the base of our objective for the day in record time we were excited. We rocketed up the first couple pitches of Y2K, a 4-pitch 5.10a. We were cruising and had plenty of daylight left when we made it to the top of the climb. We began the first of three double rope rappels. The first one went great and left my partner and I at a little ledge setting up the next one. When we both descended the second rappel and went to pull the rope, it got stuck. The rock in Red Rock is notorious for grabbing onto ropes, but I’d never had it happen quite like this before. Due to the length of the rappels, we couldn’t see where it was hung up and all our efforts to flick it free weren’t working. After much discussion and planning, my partner and I found a safe way for her to make the grueling ascent of the 200+ feet of rope and figure out how to get it unstuck. It worked, and she was able to rebuild the rappel and come back down to join me on the ledge. We knew how to avoid the original hang up and had taken the precaution to pull the rope from a different angle. We felt it slide effortlessly out of the chains, but quickly it snagged on something else on its descent down the wall. Spirits were at an all-time low. The sun had set while my partner was climbing the rope previously and now we were working in the dark. This time, since the rope had come through the rappel rings, we didn’t know of a safe way to ascend, and re-climbing the pitch wasn’t really a good option due to time and the fact that the pitch traversed far to the right from that ledge. We had one of our two ropes down with us, but we were about 180 feet off the ground still, so a 70 meter (230 foot) rope doubled over wasn’t going to even get us close. We calculated that we would need about 130 extra feet (more than half of the stuck rope) and after much deliberation and additional calculation, we realized we could piece together what was hanging down of the stuck rope to make up that amount. This is the part that still makes me laugh today. The majority of this climb was bolted (not common for what I usually climb there), and I don’t believe we even brought nuts to place, so I did not have my nut tool with me, nor my handy dandy knife. I haven’t made this mistake again. I’m so incredibly lucky that my partner was prepared with one. We rigged a little step off the anchor so she could step up as high as possible and she cut the stuck rope with her little knife from both ends that we had access to. We tied all three of the pieces together and set up a single rope rappel with a carabiner block so we could utilize the full length of one rope without encountering the knots on the way down in the other. Then we used the knotted end as a tag line to retrieve our rope after we made it (barely) to the ground. Without the use of her knife, we would have been left with no choice but to make a dangerous attempt at rescuing our rope for the second time in the dark, losing both ropes, or being left at a hanging belay 180 ft off the ground through the night until someone hopefully found us the following day. So, I still stand by what I used to say about how if you need a knife while climbing, you’re already in trouble. Now I just realize that if I’m already in trouble, I sure as hell want the tools necessary to get me out of it.

This also doesn’t touch on the climbing community etiquette of replacing worn-out or unsafe slings from anchors and rappel stations, which not only requires a knife to remove but also one to cut your new webbing to size for an appropriate anchor. I’ve used this more often in canyoneering situations than climbing, but I’ve utilized my fair share of sketchy bail anchors coming off alpine climbs and multipitch routes when the weather turns nasty. I’m always thankful for those fellow climbers who are watching out for us all and providing a little upkeep on those.
I now bring a knife with me any time I’m more than one pitch off the ground. Better safe than sorry."

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:36 pm
by araneae
Hey Sal,
Was this knife at last Blade Show as a proto in g-10?

Thx,
Nick

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:49 pm
by The Meat man
TazKristi wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm
As many of you know, members of the Spyderco Crew have a vast number of passions outside of our world of knives. One of our crew members, Hilary, is a passionate rock climber. I spoke with her about this thread and she was kind enough to transcribe a story that she told me. I think it's relevant to this discussion and I hope it brings another viewpoint into consideration.
Wow great story Kristi. Glad they got out of it okay!

Just goes to show the truth of the adage, "Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it."

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:51 pm
by Sumdumguy
TazKristi wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm
As many of you know, members of the Spyderco Crew have a vast number of passions outside of our world of knives. One of our crew members, Hilary, is a passionate rock climber. I spoke with her about this thread and she was kind enough to transcribe a story that she told me. I think it's relevant to this discussion and I hope it brings another viewpoint into consideration.

Hilary’s Climbing Story
"I’ve been climbing for almost 10 years now. I used to be the type of person who, when asked if I carry a knife, would make some comment about how if you need a knife while climbing, you’re already in deep trouble. I didn’t carry one for the longest time, but finally gave in and hung a little serrated Ladybug Salt from my nut tool so it would be there with me for multipitch and trad climbing adventures ‘just in case’. I made this decision after talking to the legend Hans Florine one year at an Outdoor Retailer show where he showed me the Spyderco Ladybug he always carries when climbing.

I’m a big fan of climbing in Red Rock Canyon outside of Las Vegas, Nevada. I have made at least one climbing trip a year there since I moved to Colorado 6 years ago. As much as I really love it, I’ve managed to have more days go horribly wrong in that park than any other climbing destination. The approaches are often unclear and the descents are even more so. Getting lost in some way is almost a given. So when my climbing partner and I made it to the base of our objective for the day in record time we were excited. We rocketed up the first couple pitches of Y2K, a 4-pitch 5.10a. We were cruising and had plenty of daylight left when we made it to the top of the climb. We began the first of three double rope rappels. The first one went great and left my partner and I at a little ledge setting up the next one. When we both descended the second rappel and went to pull the rope, it got stuck. The rock in Red Rock is notorious for grabbing onto ropes, but I’d never had it happen quite like this before. Due to the length of the rappels, we couldn’t see where it was hung up and all our efforts to flick it free weren’t working. After much discussion and planning, my partner and I found a safe way for her to make the grueling ascent of the 200+ feet of rope and figure out how to get it unstuck. It worked, and she was able to rebuild the rappel and come back down to join me on the ledge. We knew how to avoid the original hang up and had taken the precaution to pull the rope from a different angle. We felt it slide effortlessly out of the chains, but quickly it snagged on something else on its descent down the wall. Spirits were at an all-time low. The sun had set while my partner was climbing the rope previously and now we were working in the dark. This time, since the rope had come through the rappel rings, we didn’t know of a safe way to ascend, and re-climbing the pitch wasn’t really a good option due to time and the fact that the pitch traversed far to the right from that ledge. We had one of our two ropes down with us, but we were about 180 feet off the ground still, so a 70 meter (230 foot) rope doubled over wasn’t going to even get us close. We calculated that we would need about 130 extra feet (more than half of the stuck rope) and after much deliberation and additional calculation, we realized we could piece together what was hanging down of the stuck rope to make up that amount. This is the part that still makes me laugh today. The majority of this climb was bolted (not common for what I usually climb there), and I don’t believe we even brought nuts to place, so I did not have my nut tool with me, nor my handy dandy knife. I haven’t made this mistake again. I’m so incredibly lucky that my partner was prepared with one. We rigged a little step off the anchor so she could step up as high as possible and she cut the stuck rope with her little knife from both ends that we had access to. We tied all three of the pieces together and set up a single rope rappel with a carabiner block so we could utilize the full length of one rope without encountering the knots on the way down in the other. Then we used the knotted end as a tag line to retrieve our rope after we made it (barely) to the ground. Without the use of her knife, we would have been left with no choice but to make a dangerous attempt at rescuing our rope for the second time in the dark, losing both ropes, or being left at a hanging belay 180 ft off the ground through the night until someone hopefully found us the following day. So, I still stand by what I used to say about how if you need a knife while climbing, you’re already in trouble. Now I just realize that if I’m already in trouble, I sure as hell want the tools necessary to get me out of it.

This also doesn’t touch on the climbing community etiquette of replacing worn-out or unsafe slings from anchors and rappel stations, which not only requires a knife to remove but also one to cut your new webbing to size for an appropriate anchor. I’ve used this more often in canyoneering situations than climbing, but I’ve utilized my fair share of sketchy bail anchors coming off alpine climbs and multipitch routes when the weather turns nasty. I’m always thankful for those fellow climbers who are watching out for us all and providing a little upkeep on those.
I now bring a knife with me any time I’m more than one pitch off the ground. Better safe than sorry."
Thank you, Kristi.

This is the information that needs to be shared. Learn from the mistakes of others, especially when those mistakes can be deadly.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:58 pm
by Woodpuppy
The Meat man wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:49 pm
TazKristi wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm
As many of you know, members of the Spyderco Crew have a vast number of passions outside of our world of knives. One of our crew members, Hilary, is a passionate rock climber. I spoke with her about this thread and she was kind enough to transcribe a story that she told me. I think it's relevant to this discussion and I hope it brings another viewpoint into consideration.
Wow great story Kristi. Glad they got out of it okay!

Just goes to show the truth of the adage, "Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it."
This. So much this. If I were to climb, I’d have more than one knife. Like I do most days, riding a desk, running a drill rig, or whatever.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:40 pm
by Evil D
Literally the only deciding factor left for me is general appearance. Otherwise this one is a done deal for me.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:58 pm
by Jazz
I can’t wait to see it, and get measurements.

Thanks for sharing Hilary’s story, Kristi.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:04 pm
by T_MAC686
Do we know blade stock thickness? Not sure if I missed it being mentioned somewhere.

Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:47 pm
by Bloke
The Meat man wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:49 pm
TazKristi wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm
As many of you know, members of the Spyderco Crew have a vast number of passions outside of our world of knives. One of our crew members, Hilary, is a passionate rock climber. I spoke with her about this thread and she was kind enough to transcribe a story that she told me. I think it's relevant to this discussion and I hope it brings another viewpoint into consideration.
Wow great story Kristi. Glad they got out of it okay!

Just goes to show the truth of the adage, "Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it."
Wow is likely a gross understatement, but about all I can muster too.

Best read in a while and Hilary’s quite obviously one cool cookie, I reckon!

Many Thanks for sharing, Kristi. :)