H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

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sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#21

Post by sal »

Hi 40mm,

I'm not Lance, but I think your question is a good one and I'd like to hear how others sharpen H1.

When I'm sharpening serrated H1, I use a 30 degree, 3 strokes on the ground side with a fine (white) stone corner, then one stroke on the non ground side to remove the burr. No 40 degree.

When I sharpen plain edge H1, I use a 30 degree fine corner till it shaves. Sometimes I will hit it 2 or 3 strokes on the 40, but not usually.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#22

Post by 40mm »

Thanks Sal! So no microbevel for your on your serrations. I'm guessing maybe Lance wants that harder use edge for his uses. Different strokes for different folks.....literally! Getting the sharpmaker has also shown me that I can easily run around with nothing but a serrated blade, (which is currently a Salt Dragonfly) and be completely fine. Can get it sharp as any straight edge I've used I don't see a downside. I was wanting to try ZDP for a daily carry knife but the H1 keeps luring me back in. Your Dragonfly design is truly awesome for a small pocket knife. Wish it had your makers mark on it! Thanks again.
sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:29 pm
Hey Knife_bro,

The study of blade steels is almost a mystical art. It is one of the things that many here discuss and share knowledge every day. Much of is just not apparent. We've done a great deal of testing on H1. We've sold many thousands of knives with the steel. There are some things that we have just not learned yet, however odd that may seem. It' also one of the reasons many very bright people visit here often to discuss and learn about. Blade steel is one of Spyderco's passions. We do it about as well as we can. You will learn as you hang here that you too will learn and share.

That's why I've always maintained that with blade steel: "All good, just different". H1 is just one of the many.

BTW, If your VG-10 knives are brittle, they were probably heat treated too hard or are too thin at the edge.. When we heat treat, we rarely maximize RC, because of that reason. I like to go a point or two below top capable RC.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#23

Post by Evil D »

I sharpen all my serrations the same, assuming they're ground at a low enough angle that 30 will hit the edge apex and not the shoulder of the bevel or somewhere in the middle. Right now I'm experimenting with the Goldenstone though which I can only sharpen at 40 degrees unless I fiddle around with laying something underneath it to change the angle. I do offset the number of strokes favoring the front side, so as Sal said something like 3:1 or 5:1 or so, but once I've got the edge close to where I want it I'll sometimes go to the ultra fine rods and do 1:1 VERY gently. I've also been playing around with stropping on the edge of the leather pouch that the Goldenstone comes in and it works wonders.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#24

Post by sal »

Hi 40mm,

The D'Fly will have my tag in time. We're adding it to my designs as we build them.

Hi David, We're tooling up for the 30 degree stand for the Golden stone now.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#25

Post by elena86 »

knife__bro69 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:23 pm
elena86 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 am
I am a H1 spyderedge fanatic .........................................................
Hello! thank you for this stuff as well, do you think the spyderco atlantic salt would be a good option for a serrated blade? It's the one I chose and I have it on the way, I feel like with the serrations, the wharncliffe sort of blade shape will be helped out a bit by it, basically like how a saw works haha. At this point I'm convinced that h1 is great in serrations and I have done a lot more research on it.

The Atlantic Salt is a good choice but, in the same size range, the Pacific Salt is even better IMO. I allways mod my Pac Salts with a pointy tip just because I want some piercing capability in my users. It depends what you use it for....but since you like and prefer wharncliffes I would strongly recommend the Salt2 wharncliffe(C88WCYL2)... trust me, it's a beast :eek: I carry and use alot my beloved SE wharncliffe Delica in VG10 ... I love those full flat serrations and VG10 seems to behave and perform very well in spyderedge. To each his own so to speak.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#26

Post by Surfingringo »

I use the 40 degree angle when sharpening H1, but I tilt the knife almost flat on the backside. So I’m sharpening at 20 degrees on one side and about 5 degrees on the other. The main reason I do this is I want my sharpening to be quick and efficient. Every serrated edge has a slightly different edge angle (probably depending on the age and wear of the wheel used for cutting the serrations) so some of them will readily take a microbevel at 15 degrees and others not so much. At 20 I am always hitting just the apex and sharpening is VERY quick. The inclusive edge angle is still well under 30 degrees so there’s no real loss of performance either.

I usually start maintaining a new knife with the UF rods and eventually as the microbevel grows I will have to switch to the Fine rods to sharpen in a reasonable amount of time. Once I have to switch to the mediums that’s my cue that it’s probably time for a reprofiled with the diamonds. The corner of the diamond rods CAN be safely used to sharpen but you have to use very light pressure or you will rip the diamonds out given the small surface area.

One more piece of evidence for the hardness of serrated H1...I have a Pacific Salt that is about three years old and has seen WELL over a hundred sharpenings, many of them with the MEDIUM rods. The microbevel on that edge can be seen with the naked eye but it is still extremely small given the number of sharpenings. Knowing how much use that knife has seen and How many sharpening sessions its been through, its kind of crazy just how tiny the microbevel still is. The tips of the serrations are still pointy too and the edge performs as well (or better) than when new. I will try to get a photo this week and post it here.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#27

Post by Evil D »

sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:50 pm
Hi David, We're tooling up for the 30 degree stand for the Golden stone now.

sal

Awesome! I don't recall you mentioning, but do you have any idea what grit the Goldenstone is? I've said before, it really seems to be more aggressive than the brown rods (or maybe my brown rods just don't cut well anymore?). I've been using the Goldenstone exclusively for sharpening for a couple months now and I really like it more than I expected.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#28

Post by sal »

It's a normal fine grit white stone.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#29

Post by Surfingringo »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:27 am
sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:50 pm
Hi David, We're tooling up for the 30 degree stand for the Golden stone now.

sal

Awesome! I don't recall you mentioning, but do you have any idea what grit the Goldenstone is? I've said before, it really seems to be more aggressive than the brown rods (or maybe my brown rods just don't cut well anymore?). I've been using the Goldenstone exclusively for sharpening for a couple months now and I really like it more than I expected.
I replace my brown rods once every couple of years. Unlike the fine rods they seem to reach a point where they lose their cutting effectiveness and I haven’t been able to completely restore them with washing like I can the fines. Replacing them every couple of years is a cheap and easy solution and given how much sharpening I do with those rods i don’t find it unreasonable.

I should also note that that is just the flats of the medium rods. The corners seem to cut indefinitely and all they need for cleaning is to simply rub them together to expose new ceramic.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#30

Post by Doc Dan »

H1 is the most interesting steel to me. I’m fairly new to it and could kick myself for waiting so long. What I notice is that PE is not bad at edge retention at all. Plus, it is super easy to touch up. SE keeps an edge for a really long time, but, counterintuitively it is easy to resharpen. It is much better than VG10 in both regards. I use a Sharpmaker at 30* on the serrations and one pass on the flat side to knock off the burr.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#31

Post by 40mm »

Sal when you do your one stroke on the non=ground side, are you still holding the knife straight up and down, or are you laying it close to flat against the stone like Lance described? As an H1 sidenote, I've found that I really enjoy how the blades get scratched up and show use. For someone that likes a patina and that wabi-sari sort of vibe, the H1 steel is pretty cool. I would still like to see a Dragonfly in H1 with a black coated serrated edge.
sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:33 pm
Hi 40mm,

I'm not Lance, but I think your question is a good one and I'd like to hear how others sharpen H1.

When I'm sharpening serrated H1, I use a 30 degree, 3 strokes on the ground side with a fine (white) stone corner, then one stroke on the non ground side to remove the burr. No 40 degree.

When I sharpen plain edge H1, I use a 30 degree fine corner till it shaves. Sometimes I will hit it 2 or 3 strokes on the 40, but not usually.

sal
Last edited by 40mm on Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#32

Post by 40mm »

40mm wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:51 am
Sal when you do your one stroke on the non=ground side, are you still holding the knife straight up and down, or are you laying it close to flat against the stone like Lance described? As an H1 sidenote, I've found that I really enjoy how the blades get scratched up and show use. For someone that likes a patina and that wabi-sari sort of vibe, the H1 steel is pretty cool. I would still love to see an H1 Dragonfly with the black coated serrated edge.
sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:33 pm
Hi 40mm,

I'm not Lance, but I think your question is a good one and I'd like to hear how others sharpen H1.

When I'm sharpening serrated H1, I use a 30 degree, 3 strokes on the ground side with a fine (white) stone corner, then one stroke on the non ground side to remove the burr. No 40 degree.

When I sharpen plain edge H1, I use a 30 degree fine corner till it shaves. Sometimes I will hit it 2 or 3 strokes on the 40, but not usually.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#33

Post by sal »

Hi 40mm,

I do both depending on the steel and what I'm doing. I also use a 10X to 20X loupe reularly to get a better look at what the edge is doing. I carry a 10X on my pocket as an EDC.

sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#34

Post by Evil D »

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:02 am
What I notice is that PE is not bad at edge retention at all.


It's all relative. H1 PE is as good or better than most of what I grew up with. There are steels you can compare it to that drastically out perform it in edge retention, but that's the only time it becomes "poor" IMO. It wouldn't be my first choice if I was cutting carpet all day but I think H1 and LC are the two best general purpose EDC steels available.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#35

Post by tonijedi »

Evil D wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:50 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:02 am
What I notice is that PE is not bad at edge retention at all.


It's all relative. H1 PE is as good or better than most of what I grew up with. There are steels you can compare it to that drastically out perform it in edge retention, but that's the only time it becomes "poor" IMO. It wouldn't be my first choice if I was cutting carpet all day but I think H1 and LC are the two best general purpose EDC steels available.
I agree. If you're after peak sharpness H1 is amazing because of how easy it is to sharpen.
It's the H1 paradox: being the one with less edge retention, it is the one that is most time at peak sharpness.
A little bit like Mercury being the planet closest to all the others in the solar system (most of the time).
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#36

Post by sal »

Hey Lance,

Eventually the corners of the medium stone wear wear enough so they are less effective. That's when I replace them.


sal
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#37

Post by Doc Dan »

Evil D wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:50 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:02 am
What I notice is that PE is not bad at edge retention at all.


It's all relative. H1 PE is as good or better than most of what I grew up with. There are steels you can compare it to that drastically out perform it in edge retention, but that's the only time it becomes "poor" IMO. It wouldn't be my first choice if I was cutting carpet all day but I think H1 and LC are the two best general purpose EDC steels available.
Yeah, it’s no S110V for sure, but it’s as good as a lot of AUS8 that’s out there and I personally think it’s better than 12c27.

I am about to sharpen up my PE H1 and PE VG10 Dragonflies and take them to task side by side on some green fibrous plantains and other realistic cutting chores. I predict the VG10 will hold its edge longer, but not by a great margin. We’ll see.

I know SE H1 holds an edge very well based upon how many times I’ve had to sharpen, or not had to sharpen.
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#38

Post by Bloke »

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:57 pm
I am about to sharpen up my PE H1 and PE VG10 Dragonflies and take them to task side by side on some green fibrous plantains
What is it with you and Durians, Doc? :confused: :p
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#39

Post by Wartstein »

40mm wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:51 am
Sal when you do your one stroke on the non=ground side, are you still holding the knife straight up and down, or are you laying it close to flat against the stone like Lance described? As an H1 sidenote, I've found that I really enjoy how the blades get scratched up and show use. For someone that likes a patina and that wabi-sari sort of vibe, the H1 steel is pretty cool. I would still like to see a Dragonfly in H1 with a black coated serrated edge.
sal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:33 pm

Many people seem to dislike that exact thing, but I feel like you and enjoy the used look that H1 develops very quickly!

As a matter of fact,I like that used look on all of my knives.
I´d hate a knife that would be made artificially look used from the factory, but totally to the contrary when a knife develops that look over time through the use I myself put it through, how it gets more personal and somehow tells a story: That is something In love.
Also one of the reasons why I like cladded HAP 40 so much: The cladding steel (SUS 410) develops that used look (scratches...), the HAP 40 part a Patina. Each HAP 40 knife becomes a unique item and very "personal"
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: H1 serration testing, has anyone tested theirs?

#40

Post by JD Spydo »

Over the years since I became a "Spyder-Head" I've tested several of the Spyderco knives in both Serrated/Spyderedge along with plain edges and to some degree combo edges as well. I've put several of my Spyderco SE & PE blades through some rigorous, demanding actual hard uses. The funny thing I've discovered about the serrated/Spyderedged models the differences in blade steels for both SE & PE. I've found that the blade steels that tend to make for great Spyderedged models are not blade steels that do the best with plain edges.

Some of the better blade steels I've found for serrated/Spyderedges are GIN-1 ( G-2), AUS-8, ATS-55, ATS-34, H-1. Now I have found two blade steels that seem to do really well in PE & SE both. They are VG-10 and CTS-XHP>> those two steels. I've also had decent luck with ATS-55 blades for both edge types as well but the VG-10 and XHP both seem to do well in SE & PE.

It seems like blade steels with more of a toughness aspect to them seem to consistently do better with serrated edges. That's been my own personal results anyway.
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