Me New Motto Mates!

[Tucson Tom]

So, if you don't like the scene with Sprints and Exclusives -- you can just ignore them.
Someone suggested they should "go away", which makes no sense at all. Just like saying that Spyderco should stop making knives in China.
Stopping making something where there is high demand and you can't make all that people want would be extremely bad business practice!

The bottom line is that the best things in life require work. Our generation of instant gratification is losing sight of that. If you want a Sprint or Exclusive you can have it in almost all cases, but you will have to invest some extra energy. Usually not all that much. I have quite a few and have only missed one that I wanted and tried to get.

You can boil it down to a supply/demand study - with fixed prices. With high demand and low supply, the price needs to go up. Hence the flippers. What I suggest is starting each sprint or exclusive at some reasonable high price -- say $500, then drop it by $50 each week until they are all gone. Ha! That would put an end to the flippers that are so often complained about.

[sabb8pro2]

You can boil it down to a supply/demand study - with fixed prices. With high demand and low supply, the price needs to go up. Hence the flippers. What I suggest is starting each sprint or exclusive at some reasonable high price -- say $500, then drop it by $50 each week until they are all gone. Ha! That would put an end to the flippers that are so often complained about.

I’m with you. I’ve been wondering why the dealers haven’t been increasing the prices of their exclusives. The market obviously supports it. There would be plenty of people who freak out that a dealer isn’t offering their knives at MAP, but whatever. People are already freaking out.

[bbturbodad]

How about open series sprints until demand is met?

Each run gets a new scale color, but steel and scale material(s) stay consistent. Yes people will have to wait between runs (kinda like the Taichung models currently ) but as long as demand remains anybody that really wants one should eventually be able to get one.

[Surfingringo]

I just don’t have that collector mentality so it’s hard for me to see what all the fuss is about. Like Darby, I’m more interested in testing performance of the various steels than collecting and coveting all the variants. That said, I have to admit that my interest isn’t really anymore valid or noble than the collectors. Obsessing over minute performance differences is not really all that different from obsessing over having all the handle colors and markings...its just a different point of interest. Like someone said earlier, there’s room for all kinds of motivations in the knife world.

I would however say that I find the entitlement issue kind of odd. Like folks saying that companies paying for exclusives should be forced to conform to THEIR idea of how many knives is enough. I’m trying to understand that point of view but I’m struggling. If somebody wants to pay Spyderco to make 10 knives or 10,000, I don’t see how that is any of my business and I can’t imagine thinking I had the right to tell them how many they MUST purchase. I don’t want anyone demanding that I behave according to their whims (in my personal life or business) so I try to let other people do things how they see fit. Just my two cents.

[JuPaul]

I would however say that I find the entitlement issue kind of odd. Like folks saying that companies paying for exclusives should be forced to conform to THEIR idea of how many knives is enough. I’m trying to understand that point of view but I’m struggling. If somebody wants to pay Spyderco to make 10 knives or 10,000, I don’t see how that is any of my business and I can’t imagine thinking I had the right to tell them how many they MUST purchase. I don’t want anyone demanding that I behave according to their whims (in my personal life or business) so I try to let other people do things how they see fit. Just my two cents.

Great point. Entitlement is a sickness of the so-called First World. That being said, we do live in a capitalist society, and if a company wants to survive it's gotta keep its customers happy, and that's especially true of small businesses. Surely there's a middle ground to be found somewhere here.

[ChrisinHove]

I just don’t have that collector mentality so it’s hard for me to see what all the fuss is about. Like Darby, I’m more interested in testing performance of the various steels than collecting and coveting all the variants. That said, I have to admit that my interest isn’t really anymore valid or noble than the collectors. Obsessing over minute performance differences is not really all that different from obsessing over having all the handle colors and markings...its just a different point of interest. Like someone said earlier, there’s room for all kinds of motivations in the knife world.

I would however say that I find the entitlement issue kind of odd. Like folks saying that companies paying for exclusives should be forced to conform to THEIR idea of how many knives is enough. I’m trying to understand that point of view but I’m struggling. If somebody wants to pay Spyderco to make 10 knives or 10,000, I don’t see how that is any of my business and I can’t imagine thinking I had the right to tell them how many they MUST purchase. I don’t want anyone demanding that I behave according to their whims (in my personal life or business) so I try to let other people do things how they see fit. Just my two cents.

Well said, that man!

When’s the fluted Ti Siren sprint run coming out?

[Surfingringo]

Ti Siren? Sign me up!! :p

I’m actually hoping to have Chad Kelly make me a custom Ti Siren one of these years!

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I would however say that I find the entitlement issue kind of odd. Like folks saying that companies paying for exclusives should be forced to conform to THEIR idea of how many knives is enough. I’m trying to understand that point of view but I’m struggling. If somebody wants to pay Spyderco to make 10 knives or 10,000, I don’t see how that is any of my business and I can’t imagine thinking I had the right to tell them how many they MUST purchase. I don’t want anyone demanding that I behave according to their whims (in my personal life or business) so I try to let other people do things how they see fit. Just my two cents.

Great point. Entitlement is a sickness of the so-called First World. That being said, we do live in a capitalist society, and if a company wants to survive it's gotta keep its customers happy, and that's especially true of small businesses. Surely there's a middle ground to be found somewhere here.

Entitlement is a misused, overused derogatory phrase pushed out when someone disagrees.

It does not apply to this thread.

Furthermore Spyderco is in charge letting their supply chain down the line tarnish their brand by upsetting the customer base is unwise.

The tail should never wag the dog, I can see how you, Lance take your position, you are not just a buyer, user or collector but have a vested interest and motivation I can not speak to but recognize it is there so I will respect your point of view.

What JuPaul has just posted hits the nail squarely on the head, has put in a few words my exact sentiment.

Good Job!

[The Deacon]

Furthermore Spyderco is in charge letting their supply chain down the line tarnish their brand by upsetting the customer base is unwise.

The tail should never wag the dog, I can see how you, Lance take your position, you are not just a buyer, user or collector but have a vested interest and motivation I can not speak to but recognize it is there so I will respect your point of view.

Problem is, no company can consistently please everyone. I'd also say that. judging by this and other similar thread threads, it's pretty clear to me that only a small number of people are getting upset over Spyderco's current system of producing and distributing Sprints and Exclusives. I suspect as many, or more, would be equally upset if Exclusives were confined to distributors, or if Sprint run size was doubled.

[DSH007]

There's plenty of room for users and collectors in this hobby. Don't know why it's always got to be one vs the other.

Totally agree. And many of us are both.

That is very true. Many are a combination of both. I consider myself both, because I seek out and collect certain models, but also use each one as I like to find the differences in the steels on that same platform. I think there are MANY others that are in the same boat.

I guess I'm a little of both too but I consider myself more of a accumulator than collector. I tend to buy the models and variations I like. I always intend to use but sometimes something else comes along and sometimes it takes awhile before some are actually used. I've had my Rex45 PM2 & Para 3 since they dropped. Both have been carried and used a little but not regularly. I finally put a new set of shoes (scales) on the Para 3 so that'll see a lot more pocket time now.

YES! Haha thank you for using this word.. it perfectly describes how I feel about my own "collection." I believe that all knives should be carried/used (not abused).. always have. I have never bought a knife with the intention of keeping it in a box in a safe.. In fact, the term "safe queen" has always rubbed me the wrong way.. But at this point I have "accumulated" so many knives that I must admit some do sit unused for long periods. I've never really considered myself to be a collector per se, but an accumulator.. definitely.

That said, I don't really have anything against "collectors." I think we all have a right to choose how we spend our money.

[legOFwhat?]

As Westley says to Inigo Montoya: "get use to disappointment".

Unmet expectations will happen on a daily basis, and they can be a pain, but only you can decide how to respond.

There is no race, class, or social group that can escape this.

Maybe one day we can accept it.

[curlyhairedboy]

I don't think I've heard any arguments against increasing the sprint run size.

But now I'm thinking about the issue of scarcity and how it can impact collectable knives.

Let's think about a hard to find sprint.

For the hypothetical collector who manages to nab one, a lot of the satisfaction is not just enjoying the objective qualities of the knife, but also the subjective joys of knowing just how many people are unhappy having missed out. The knowledge of that unhappiness is a major contributor to the overall satisfaction.

I don't particularly like the fact that our brains get a lot of joy from other people's unhappiness, and I strive to focus on healthier and more independent enjoyment. If possible, I'd like my happiness to not rely on making others angry or sad.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Furthermore Spyderco is in charge letting their supply chain down the line tarnish their brand by upsetting the customer base is unwise.

The tail should never wag the dog, I can see how you, Lance take your position, you are not just a buyer, user or collector but have a vested interest and motivation I can not speak to but recognize it is there so I will respect your point of view.

Problem is, no company can consistently please everyone. I'd also say that. judging by this and other similar thread threads, it's pretty clear to me that only a small number of people are getting upset over Spyderco's current system of producing and distributing Sprints and Exclusives. I suspect as many, or more, would be equally upset if Exclusives were confined to distributors, or if Sprint run size was doubled.

True about pleasing everyone. As far as the amount of people getting upset, it impossible to tell how large or small that group is as many are not vocal. It is not just the upset ones Spyderco should worry about though, some of those will still try to buy. It is when upset turns to indifference you loose your customer.

The growing number of people who throw up their hands and say oh well yet another Spyderco made from the most special alloy of all UNOBTAINIUM is due to be released Mehhh why bother?

Why do you believe people would be upset if Sprint run sizes were doubled? Who would this group be? Seems to me it would serve the ones desiring to buy and help sell more product.

Why would anyone care about anything being restricted to distributors? I as a buyer, user and collector do not care, I just want to have a peaceful transaction of money for goods or services with any topic that requires the exchange of money not just Spyderco.

[sal]

At least you can be secure in the fact that we do try to solve problems and please as many as possible.

sal

[knife__bro69]

Ti Siren? Sign me up!! :p

I’m actually hoping to have Chad Kelly make me a custom Ti Siren one of these years!

Hey I've been lurking for quite a while following the Siren's development, as well as your LC200N/h1 testing. I've gotta say, I've never bought custom scales for any spyderco, but I think I like your design and overall philosophy of the Siren enough to probably get some ti scales myself. I might stick with g10 just because the weight saving though. I'm planning to use this as a kitchen utility knife at work, for cutting open packaging, boxes, chemical supplies etc, so the corrosion proof properties of this knife really appeal to me.

After being into knives for so long, I can say there are four paths to knives, there are of course more, but four main paths in my experience. With a knife you can go for, edge longevity, edge durability, corrosion resistance, or ease of sharpening. I feel like the Siren will be among the rest of the salt lineup at the peak of the road to corrosion resistance, which is amazing for my purposes. LC200n is also pretty far down the path of edge longevity and ease of sharpening as well, and with the blade shaped the way it is, I think it will do excellent for many many things. In video games, I think we would call the salt lineup something along the lines of "maxing out", or in other words, going as far into the corrosion resistance philosophy as possible while still maintaining the qualities we all enjoy from our better knives.

[knife__bro69]

At least you can be secure in the fact that we do try to solve problems and please as many as possible.

sal

Hey sal, I've gotta say that you guys truly are my favorite knife brand of all time. Don't get me wrong, I've tried to find other brands, even more expensive brands like the sebenza and hinderer etc. What keeps me coming back to spyderco however, is the fact that the company can admit and learn from mistakes, and instead turn those mistakes into strengths. Not only this, but the fact that spyderco is always interested in seeking the best possible materials/design for knives for many given purposes. By lurking on the forums before this, I have used bladeforums and the spyderco forums to learn about blade steels, knife geometry, and anything to do with knives essentially. You don't see me going to a benchmade forum or a sebenza forum to talk about the advances or science behind knives etc, not to say that there is no discussion in other places... but the spyderco forums and bladeforums are just so much more active in their interest for searching for the best knives possible and information relating to WHY they are the best.

As a full time chef, I also love your kitchen knives. I've used them in restaurants, namely the spyderco santoku, and it performed better than any other knife I have used for that purpose. Long story short, you guys make the best tools for the job and you all seem to be invested in WHY they are the best tools for the job. Spyderco will have my customer loyalty for a long long time.

[jabba359]

Why would anyone care about anything being restricted to distributors? I as a buyer, user and collector do not care, I just want to have a peaceful transaction of money for goods or services with any topic that requires the exchange of money not just Spyderco.

Because if only distributors were commissioning runs, we wouldn't get all the unique combinations of colors, materials, and steels the store exclusives have offered. Distributors buy large orders, so they are concerned with "Can we sell 2400 of these?" If they don't think they can sell that many, they won't order it.

Stores, on the other hand, only have to worry about "Can I sell 500 (or 800 or 1200) of these?" For a single store, it's worth investing the time into smaller quantities that a distributor sized company might not find worthwhile.

Right now, there's nothing prohibiting the distributors from doing a wide range of exclusives, but they're not doing many, so I'd expect if exclusives got changed to only being allowed to distributors, we'd see a massive decrease in options. So that's why we care.

[PStone]

Didn’t Spyderco lower the minimum piece requirement to order an exclusive a year or two ago? Right around the REC Para3 I thought. That’s why we saw a sudden surge in the amount of different dealers commissioning exclusives in the past year or two. Especially from the smaller guys. No longer was it just the BHQ and KC offerings. And didn’t we all say how good an idea it was? I still think it’s a good idea to have lower numbers being an option for that reason alone. Look at Buck knives. They typically have limited editions as low as 25 units. Buck of the month is almost always under 250.

[Evil D]

I just think of it as a lottery...if I get one I get one, if not there are other knives. It's funny that some of us can never get sprints but the flippers always manage to but I guess we're outnumbered? I dunno, sometimes I'm glad I'm not a serious collector and I don't HAVE to get every sprint or exclusive that comes out.

[sal]

Hi Knife_bro,

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the kind words.

sal