Will K390 be available in SE also?
K390 SE
-
- Member
- Posts: 642
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:32 am
- Location: Pacific Northwest
-
- Member
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 pm
Re: K390 SE
I honestly doubt. You really don't see any of these kinds of steels in SE. It could be that they're too hard and not tough enough to handle that kind of edge
Re: K390 SE
Poor grindability may also contribute to a business decision to not make. As it is grinding labor and material costs add up quickly for these "extreme" steels.
The maker may also be unwilling.
Pure speculation on my part.
The maker may also be unwilling.
Pure speculation on my part.
Re: K390 SE
I asked a related question in the "K390"-thread I startet, here is an interesting answer by Cambertree:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85782&start=40#p1394839
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85782&start=40#p1394839
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
-
- Member
- Posts: 642
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:32 am
- Location: Pacific Northwest
-
- Member
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
- Location: Missouri, USA
Re: K390 SE
I'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.
- Connor
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Re: K390 SE
So, aside from the regular production steels (bd1n, s30v, h1, vg10, lc200n, 8cr13mov, etc), what other steels have been offered in SE or CE in the last few years? The only one I can think of off hand is 52100.
Based on all those steels listed, it definitely seems like the "softer" steels are favored for serrations. Sure seems like they'd be easier to grind.
Based on all those steels listed, it definitely seems like the "softer" steels are favored for serrations. Sure seems like they'd be easier to grind.
- Julia
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Re: K390 SE
I really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)The Meat man wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:28 pmI'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.
-
- Member
- Posts: 5858
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
- Location: Missouri, USA
Re: K390 SE
JMM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:31 pmI really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)The Meat man wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:28 pmI'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.
It's a relatively low (vanadium) carbide steel, which means the edge is less likely to fracture while still having excellent wear resistance. It has great edge strength at higher hardness too. (So far Spyderco has been running it around 65 HRC.) In my experience it also sharpens like a dream, which is important for serrations. All around it seems the perfect SE steel.
In my mind the top two most important attributes a SE steel should have are 1) very high edge strength to be able to withstand chipping or rolling, and 2) be easy to sharpen. H-1 is easy to sharpen but has pretty low edge strength. VG-10 has a nice balance of both, but I think CPM 4V would top them all.
- Connor
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
- Cambertree
- Member
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:48 am
- Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: K390 SE
Thanks for the ‘shout out’, Wartstein, my friend. :)
I think you hit the nail on the head, Enactive. I hadn’t really considered poor grindability as being a factor in which steels might get passed up for SE, but of course it would be a major consideration.
I recall Sal saying that the SE edges are ground on a wheel which is dressed with an inverted pattern of the SE profile. After about 50 knives (with H1), the worn wheel needs to be re-dressed with fresh grooves and the process starts again.
Those very wear resistant steels would no doubt be quite inefficient with such a process. Apparently one Maxamet knife can wear out a fresh belt very quickly, and K390 can’t be too far off that level either.
All this talk of 4V has me thinking that CPM 3V would probably also make an excellent SE steel, with its low carbide volume, fine microstructure, and relatively high toughness.
Julia, how do you like that CE 52100 you got? I debated back and forth whether to get that CE 52100 PM2, reasoning it would probably make a great knife. I should have just bought the dang thing, but I kept having visions of rusted out pivot holes tucked under the scales. :eek:
I think you hit the nail on the head, Enactive. I hadn’t really considered poor grindability as being a factor in which steels might get passed up for SE, but of course it would be a major consideration.
I recall Sal saying that the SE edges are ground on a wheel which is dressed with an inverted pattern of the SE profile. After about 50 knives (with H1), the worn wheel needs to be re-dressed with fresh grooves and the process starts again.
Those very wear resistant steels would no doubt be quite inefficient with such a process. Apparently one Maxamet knife can wear out a fresh belt very quickly, and K390 can’t be too far off that level either.
All this talk of 4V has me thinking that CPM 3V would probably also make an excellent SE steel, with its low carbide volume, fine microstructure, and relatively high toughness.
Julia, how do you like that CE 52100 you got? I debated back and forth whether to get that CE 52100 PM2, reasoning it would probably make a great knife. I should have just bought the dang thing, but I kept having visions of rusted out pivot holes tucked under the scales. :eek:
Re: K390 SE
Thank you for taking the time to articulate your thoughts... while I do not have the experience with SE (well very little) I think you hit the nail of the head in terms of 4V... I have just gotten a Shaman with it, and am super excited to really starting to put it to work, until now I've only had a Para3 to work with, which is a fine platform for testing, but not ideal in my mind to really do some hard testing -- the more I use 4v, the more it inches closer to usurping Rex45 as my favourite Spydie steel to date...The Meat man wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:17 pmJMM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:31 pmI really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)The Meat man wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:28 pmI'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.
It's a relatively low (vanadium) carbide steel, which means the edge is less likely to fracture while still having excellent wear resistance. It has great edge strength at higher hardness too. (So far Spyderco has been running it around 65 HRC.) In my experience it also sharpens like a dream, which is important for serrations. All around it seems the perfect SE steel.
In my mind the top two most important attributes a SE steel should have are 1) very high edge strength to be able to withstand chipping or rolling, and 2) be easy to sharpen. H-1 is easy to sharpen but has pretty low edge strength. VG-10 has a nice balance of both, but I think CPM 4V would top them all.
Re: K390 SE
I would much rather enjoy S60V/440v to be back in SE offerings.
Re: K390 SE
I think a possible corollary is that you don't need serrations for the purpose of improved edge retention and cutting power as much with PE k390 with a coarse finish as you would with say H1 or VG10.Cambertree wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:36 amThanks for the ‘shout out’, Wartstein, my friend. :)
I think you hit the nail on the head, Enactive. I hadn’t really considered poor grindability as being a factor in which steels might get passed up for SE, but of course it would be a major consideration.
I recall Sal saying that the SE edges are ground on a wheel which is dressed with an inverted pattern of the SE profile. After about 50 knives (with H1), the worn wheel needs to be re-dressed with fresh grooves and the process starts again.
Those very wear resistant steels would no doubt be quite inefficient with such a process. Apparently one Maxamet knife can wear out a fresh belt very quickly, and K390 can’t be too far off that level either.
All this talk of 4V has me thinking that CPM 3V would probably also make an excellent SE steel, with its low carbide volume, fine microstructure, and relatively high toughness.
Julia, how do you like that CE 52100 you got? I debated back and forth whether to get that CE 52100 PM2, reasoning it would probably make a great knife. I should have just bought the dang thing, but I kept having visions of rusted out pivot holes tucked under the scales. :eek:
Maybe the grindability factor also favors the tradeoff away from SE K390 and other harder and carbide rich steels.