K390 SE

[crazywednesday]

It was decided that the K390 Endura family series will NOT be a Sprint, but regular "In-the-line" models.

sal

Will K390 be available in SE also?

[Marulaghost]

I honestly doubt. You really don't see any of these kinds of steels in SE. It could be that they're too hard and not tough enough to handle that kind of edge

[Enactive]

Poor grindability may also contribute to a business decision to not make. As it is grinding labor and material costs add up quickly for these "extreme" steels.

The maker may also be unwilling.

Pure speculation on my part.

[Wartstein]

I asked a related question in the "K390"-thread I startet, here is an interesting answer by Cambertree:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85782&start=40#p1394839

[crazywednesday]

Thanks for the link. His conclusion was similar to my thinking.

[The Meat man]

I'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.

[JuPaul]

So, aside from the regular production steels (bd1n, s30v, h1, vg10, lc200n, 8cr13mov, etc), what other steels have been offered in SE or CE in the last few years? The only one I can think of off hand is 52100.

Based on all those steels listed, it definitely seems like the "softer" steels are favored for serrations. Sure seems like they'd be easier to grind.

[JMM]

I'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.

I really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)

[The Meat man]

I'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.

I really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)

It's a relatively low (vanadium) carbide steel, which means the edge is less likely to fracture while still having excellent wear resistance. It has great edge strength at higher hardness too. (So far Spyderco has been running it around 65 HRC.) In my experience it also sharpens like a dream, which is important for serrations. All around it seems the perfect SE steel.

In my mind the top two most important attributes a SE steel should have are 1) very high edge strength to be able to withstand chipping or rolling, and 2) be easy to sharpen. H-1 is easy to sharpen but has pretty low edge strength. VG-10 has a nice balance of both, but I think CPM 4V would top them all.

[Cambertree]

Thanks for the ‘shout out’, Wartstein, my friend. :)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Enactive. I hadn’t really considered poor grindability as being a factor in which steels might get passed up for SE, but of course it would be a major consideration.

I recall Sal saying that the SE edges are ground on a wheel which is dressed with an inverted pattern of the SE profile. After about 50 knives (with H1), the worn wheel needs to be re-dressed with fresh grooves and the process starts again.

Those very wear resistant steels would no doubt be quite inefficient with such a process. Apparently one Maxamet knife can wear out a fresh belt very quickly, and K390 can’t be too far off that level either.

All this talk of 4V has me thinking that CPM 3V would probably also make an excellent SE steel, with its low carbide volume, fine microstructure, and relatively high toughness.

Julia, how do you like that CE 52100 you got? I debated back and forth whether to get that CE 52100 PM2, reasoning it would probably make a great knife. I should have just bought the dang thing, but I kept having visions of rusted out pivot holes tucked under the scales. :eek:

[JMM]

I'd be really interested in seeing some more variety with serrated steels. I bet CPM 4V would be a terrific SE steel.

I really enjoy 4v very much, it's probably my second favorite steel ever, beaten just barely by rex45... I am curious as I am wading into the whole SE world a bit slowly, why do you think 4v would work well as an SE steel (I don't disagree, I just am curious)

It's a relatively low (vanadium) carbide steel, which means the edge is less likely to fracture while still having excellent wear resistance. It has great edge strength at higher hardness too. (So far Spyderco has been running it around 65 HRC.) In my experience it also sharpens like a dream, which is important for serrations. All around it seems the perfect SE steel.

In my mind the top two most important attributes a SE steel should have are 1) very high edge strength to be able to withstand chipping or rolling, and 2) be easy to sharpen. H-1 is easy to sharpen but has pretty low edge strength. VG-10 has a nice balance of both, but I think CPM 4V would top them all.

Thank you for taking the time to articulate your thoughts... while I do not have the experience with SE (well very little) I think you hit the nail of the head in terms of 4V... I have just gotten a Shaman with it, and am super excited to really starting to put it to work, until now I've only had a Para3 to work with, which is a fine platform for testing, but not ideal in my mind to really do some hard testing -- the more I use 4v, the more it inches closer to usurping Rex45 as my favourite Spydie steel to date...

[emanuel]

I would much rather enjoy S60V/440v to be back in SE offerings.

[Enactive]

Thanks for the ‘shout out’, Wartstein, my friend. :)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Enactive. I hadn’t really considered poor grindability as being a factor in which steels might get passed up for SE, but of course it would be a major consideration.

I recall Sal saying that the SE edges are ground on a wheel which is dressed with an inverted pattern of the SE profile. After about 50 knives (with H1), the worn wheel needs to be re-dressed with fresh grooves and the process starts again.

Those very wear resistant steels would no doubt be quite inefficient with such a process. Apparently one Maxamet knife can wear out a fresh belt very quickly, and K390 can’t be too far off that level either.

All this talk of 4V has me thinking that CPM 3V would probably also make an excellent SE steel, with its low carbide volume, fine microstructure, and relatively high toughness.

Julia, how do you like that CE 52100 you got? I debated back and forth whether to get that CE 52100 PM2, reasoning it would probably make a great knife. I should have just bought the dang thing, but I kept having visions of rusted out pivot holes tucked under the scales. :eek:

I think a possible corollary is that you don't need serrations for the purpose of improved edge retention and cutting power as much with PE k390 with a coarse finish as you would with say H1 or VG10.

Maybe the grindability factor also favors the tradeoff away from SE K390 and other harder and carbide rich steels.