Paramilitary XL (Para 4) vs Military 2

[Evil D]

This comment in another thread really hits the nail on the head if you ask me.

I am a supporter of the liner lock on the Millie. I wouldn’t change a thing. But could a Paramilitary2 XL (Para 4) be considered? Kind of like how the original manix evolved into the Manix2 xl?

There has been so much debate about a Military 2, which lock it should have and whether it should have a 4 way clip....I think most people would welcome an alternative in a Para XL that is Military sized and has a compression lock and 4 way clip. This seems to give everyone what they want...the Military supporters will get to keep the Military as it is, and those who want the CL and 4 way clip will get them. As I said in that other thread, I think it would be a smart marketing choice to continue on with the well established Para 2/3 family. As much as I love the Military, I don't think it has the hype these days that the Para 2/3 have so I'm not sure if a Military 2 would sell like a Para XL would, even if the end result is basically the same knife. Who knows, maybe both of these ideas will happen? Maybe the Military 2 will continue on with the Power Lock or whatever lock it ends up with, and the Para XL happens alongside it?

[PStone]

Agreed about the Para name tagged to a knife. It captures the attention of the devout following of the successful Para series of knifes. I replied in the other thread that I would also settle for calling it the Para4. (4) denotes the 4.3” inch blade, like the para3’s (3)does. The XL tag may actually make it a tougher sell. I am sure others hear XL and think huge knife.

[Evil D]

Agreed about the Para name tagged to a knife. It captures the attention of the devout following of the successful Para series of knifes. I replied in the other thread that I would also settle for calling it the Para4. (4) denotes the 4.3” inch blade, like the para3’s (3)does. The XL tag may actually make it a tougher sell. I am sure others hear XL and think huge knife.

You may be right, simply naming it the Para 4 is probably a safer bet. The poor ol' Manix 2 XL might be the proof behind this.

[anycal]

The question is how much is the new Military 2 going to deviate from its original design; original lines? Probably not much. It is already being prototyped, so it is already in the works.

I already have 3 of the regular Military knives (2 liner locks; 1 framelock). So simply putting a new lock on it is less attractive to me than a new/different model with same dimensions.

[Wartstein]

Voted for a Paramilitary XL, and to be honest:
Mostly for the reason, that in exchange the great, iconic Millie remains unchanged and as it is right now.

Still, a PM XL would be cool in itself! I figure it would have (other than the Millie) full liners, maybe they could make the blade a bit taller than on the Millie (and by that the tip slightly stronger just by geometry) and it would be a real, hefty beast. I am sure many would like this!

[Wartstein]

The question is how much is the new Military 2 going to deviate from its original design; original lines? Probably not much. It is already being prototyped, so it is already in the works.

I already have 3 of the regular Military knives (2 liner locks; 1 framelock). So simply putting a new lock on it is less attractive to me than a new/different model with same dimensions.

For me a comp. lock WOULD already be a rather big deviation from the original design... A big part of the Millie are the feel, look, function, pros (and potentially cons), and, yes, even the SOUND of its perfect linerlock..

(Hey, I managed not to write a total wall of words, bro... )

[anycal]

^^ was it tough? :D

[Wartstein]

^^ was it tough? :D

Well, yes... deleting the part that at first I thought to be necessary in order to really make my point took me like ten minutes... :D

[Evil D]

Realistically I don't expect Spyderco to make decisions based on this thread, it's just fun discussion. Truth is I'll probably buy and like either option, and since I already have enough Militaries to last me forever, I'll get over the changes if the Military 2 is too different. Honestly I'd really like both of these idea to happen, but mostly because I'm curious what the new lock might be on the Military 2, and because the grip on the Para 2 behind the choil has always been too small for me so a Para 4 with a Military sized blade and grip sounds like just the knife to pull me back into the Para family, I haven't bought a Para 2 or 3 since the CTS-20CP sprint!


I think what I mean to say is I'd rather the Military 2 have some other never seen before lock rather than a CL, and then also get a Para 4 with the CL in Military size. Just changing the Military over to a CL is a less exciting option than getting two new models.

[Pancake]

Sal must be shaken his head every time Military 2 is mentioned on forum :D

I think I am ok with both options

[Wartstein]

Realistically I don't expect Spyderco to make decisions based on this thread, it's just fun discussion. Truth is I'll probably buy and like either option, and since I already have enough Militaries to last me forever, I'll get over the changes if the Military 2 is too different. Honestly I'd really like both of these idea to happen, but mostly because I'm curious what the new lock might be on the Military 2, and because the grip on the Para 2 behind the choil has always been too small for me so a Para 4 with a Military sized blade and grip sounds like just the knife to pull me back into the Para family, I haven't bought a Para 2 or 3 since the CTS-20CP sprint!

Straight spine Stretch is the solution then...

(For the most part just kidding, but it´s true that the PM2 and the Straight Spine Stretch are very similar in dimensions and look (but not in some other aspects of course), but the latter offers a LOT more space on the actual handle).

[Wartstein]

Sal must be shaken his head every time Military 2 is mentioned on forum :D

I think I am ok with both options

Well, I am sure he was well aware what kind of response he would trigger by mentioning the Millie 2 prototype.. he is a really wise man after all.

[Evil D]

Realistically I don't expect Spyderco to make decisions based on this thread, it's just fun discussion. Truth is I'll probably buy and like either option, and since I already have enough Militaries to last me forever, I'll get over the changes if the Military 2 is too different. Honestly I'd really like both of these idea to happen, but mostly because I'm curious what the new lock might be on the Military 2, and because the grip on the Para 2 behind the choil has always been too small for me so a Para 4 with a Military sized blade and grip sounds like just the knife to pull me back into the Para family, I haven't bought a Para 2 or 3 since the CTS-20CP sprint!

Straight spine Stretch is the solution then...

(For the most part just kidding, but it´s true that the PM2 and the Straight Spine Stretch are very similar in dimensions and look (but not in some other aspects of course), but the latter offers a LOT more space on the actual handle).

See that puts us in another lock debate lol. I do love the Stretch though. I have an older Stretch 2 and it's also a wee bit too short but it's more comfortable than the Para 2 is behind the choil. This issue along with blade shape is what made me prefer the Manix 2 over the Para 2.

[Larry_Mott]

Voted for a Paramilitary XL, and to be honest:
Mostly for the reason, that in exchange the great, iconic Millie remains unchanged and as it is right now.

Still, a PM XL would be cool in itself! I figure it would have (other than the Millie) full liners, maybe they could make the blade a bit taller than on the Millie (and by that the tip slightly stronger just by geometry) and it would be a real, hefty beast. I am sure many would like this!

100% agree! Leave the Military alone :)
Let the Para*** remain the 100 shades and flavors-line. I fear the day is coming in the future where Spyderco will be another Benchmade, same lock on every d*mn knife, and you'll be hard pressed to spot the difference between the models
Vive le difference! :)

[Evil D]

I think it was Lance that said to me that the Military may not be as "legendary" to the rest of the knife buying world as we AFI's may think it is. To me it's nothing short of Spyderco royalty and I think it's basically the King of all Spyderco knives but I do think these days the Para name is more well known and stirs up more hype, and maybe even that the name "Military" might actually push some people away since it's pretty aggressive. I'm sure some people aren't as into the tactical sound of the name. I've actually seen more than a couple people asking what "Para" stands for, it's surprising how many people don't know the history of these knives even though they're only 10 years old.

[Wartstein]

Realistically I don't expect Spyderco to make decisions based on this thread, it's just fun discussion. Truth is I'll probably buy and like either option, and since I already have enough Militaries to last me forever, I'll get over the changes if the Military 2 is too different. Honestly I'd really like both of these idea to happen, but mostly because I'm curious what the new lock might be on the Military 2, and because the grip on the Para 2 behind the choil has always been too small for me so a Para 4 with a Military sized blade and grip sounds like just the knife to pull me back into the Para family, I haven't bought a Para 2 or 3 since the CTS-20CP sprint!

Straight spine Stretch is the solution then...

(For the most part just kidding, but it´s true that the PM2 and the Straight Spine Stretch are very similar in dimensions and look (but not in some other aspects of course), but the latter offers a LOT more space on the actual handle).

See that puts us in another lock debate lol. I do love the Stretch though. I have an older Stretch 2 and it's also a wee bit too short but it's more comfortable than the Para 2 is behind the choil. This issue along with blade shape is what made me prefer the Manix 2 over the Para 2.

Right, I don´t DARE to start a backlock-discussion...

But David, you have to have a Stretch ONE actually.. I am quite sure the Stretch TWO (drop point or straight spine) offers MORE actual grip area on the handle than even a Millie and CERTAINLY than a Manix! (Stretch 2 has a longer handle than the Stretch 1 generally. Plus NO "hook" at the end of the handle (like the Millie and Stretch 1 do have) but a flat shape there that maximizes the grip area)

[fatsubie]

Only two options. Where is the third option?

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I could not vote for either I have the Stop lock and am not a big fan of it for one handed operation. Two handed operation it is just fine.

I do not feel the Compression lock is a good choice either due to having it open in the pocket in the past and also misplacing my thumb on a Para2 and accidentally releasing the blade under negative pressure while being distracted by the boss preparing for a hurricane cutting plastic.

With the Para3 however I never have this issue due to a smaller handle.

Anyway I think lock rock would be an issue with a back-lock and for some reason most of my Spyderco's have it. Can't say I like it one bit at all.

The Powerlock in my opinion makes the most sense it is more secure and stronger than a backlock and should eliminate the Lock Rock which I find somewhat hard to forgive in products that are touted as having such close tolerances, fit and finish etc...

Just guessing since I am pretty sure the power lock was only produced in on knife, which I have never used.

The power lock will also complement the 4 way clip positioning and server the left handed folks out there.

4 Way clip is long overdo.

Anyway just my view of things but as I recall Sal has said the Military 2 will have the Stop Lock.

[XuZaX]

I could not agree more. An xl para2. Would be supreme. Also make it look in a few options. M4 s90v. You know. Maxamet. Eh. Just do them all. This would be an amazing knife

[wrdwrght]

I’d like to see a stop-lock or power-lock Millie. I’d prefer the latter but there’s never been talk of it, like the stop-lock.

Call it a 2 ‘cause the original is fine the way it is, as is the PM2.

My curiosity about other locks in the Millie does not extend to the compression-lock.