Military with Compression Lock?

[PStone]

I am a supporter of the liner lock on the Millie. I wouldn’t change a thing. But could a Paramilitary2 XL be considered? Kind of like how the original manix evolved into the Manix2 xl?

With the overall success of the Para 2 and now the Para 3 I'm really shocked it hasn't already happened. I think it's the perfect solution to this whole debate....the people who love the Military as it is will keep what they have and the people who want a CL version with a 4 way clip will get what they want. It's probably the only way to make everyone happy. I don't think it would be any more redundant than the Police 4 being as similar to the Military as it is. I think marketing wise they'll sell a lot more Paramilitary XL's than they'll sell Military 2's.

Totally 100% agree. If it’s marketed right, we are all happy. My issue with a comp lock Military is that it will be a totally different knife. So instead of the whole debate about changing an iconic Spyderco model. Let’s just call it a different name. I would also settle for the all new Para4! Think how many Para4s will be sold immediately. I associate the Para-series with comp lock. So when I hear Para, I automatically think comp lock. There would be no more debate.

[Evil D]

I am a supporter of the liner lock on the Millie. I wouldn’t change a thing. But could a Paramilitary2 XL be considered? Kind of like how the original manix evolved into the Manix2 xl?

With the overall success of the Para 2 and now the Para 3 I'm really shocked it hasn't already happened. I think it's the perfect solution to this whole debate....the people who love the Military as it is will keep what they have and the people who want a CL version with a 4 way clip will get what they want. It's probably the only way to make everyone happy. I don't think it would be any more redundant than the Police 4 being as similar to the Military as it is. I think marketing wise they'll sell a lot more Paramilitary XL's than they'll sell Military 2's.

Totally 100% agree. If it’s marketed right, we are all happy. My issue with a comp lock Military is that it will be a totally different knife. So instead of the whole debate about changing an iconic Spyderco model. Let’s just call it a different name. I would also settle for the all new Para4! Think how many Para4s will be sold immediately. I associate the Para-series with comp lock. So when I hear Para, I automatically think comp lock. There would be no more debate.

I feel kinda silly admitting that, but I agree it just feels more right in my head and changing the name takes away all the "fear of change" that I have with changing the Military which I love so much.

This sort of thing has been proven in other industries. When Ford discontinued the Taurus and brought out a new model and called it the Five Hundred, sales for that new car tanked. Then they changed the name back over to Taurus, and sales picked back up. I think most people have some bit of fear of change regarding things they really like. I have no doubt this is a big struggle for Spyderco when developing next generation version of existing models.

[Enactive]

On the issue of closing/ unlocking comp lock knives:

When i first got a comp lock knife (Shaman) and was fiddling with it, i thought i had to use the 'pinch method' to release the lock. Indeed that method seems less friendly to cold or gloved hands or when you are working up high etc.

After some time i realized that i could easily close the Shaman (or i think other 50/50 choil comp lock knives) 'backlock style.'

What i mean is that:
1. while holding the knife locked open, horizontally in a hammer or saber grip...
2. move your thumb to the comp lock release tab.
3. Press the tab.
4. Allow the choil portion of the blade to fall onto your index finger.
5. Roll the knife in your palm, so that the blade tip is pointing up at you
6. Finish closing the knife in your prefered manner (e.g. thumb in round hole)

That sounds a lot less natural than it is in practice. If you close backlocks this way it is only a difference of lateral/ side pressure on the lock release tab instead of the downward pressure applied to the lockbar of a backlock to release it.

Hope this helps. I hear a lot of repeating of the difficulty of operating a comp lock with gloves or when concerned about dropping. I suggest that those who have those issues try this closing method. For me it basically eliminates the concern or risk of dropping and some of the challenge of operating with gloves on (depends a lot on which gloves).

I will say that closing a large liner lock with (esp. bulkier) gloves on may be a little easier than using the comp lock.

The point is mostly that i like to use both the 'pinch method' and the '(mid) backlock method' to close my Shaman.

[Wartstein]

On the issue of closing/ unlocking comp lock knives:

When i first got a comp lock knife (Shaman) and was fiddling with it, i thought i had to use the 'pinch method' to release the lock. Indeed that method seems less friendly to cold or gloved hands or when you are working up high etc.

After some time i realized that i could easily close the Shaman (or i think other 50/50 choil comp lock knives) 'backlock style.'

What i mean is that:
1. while holding the knife locked open, horizontally in a hammer or saber grip...
2. move your thumb to the comp lock release tab.
3. Press the tab.
4. Allow the choil portion of the blade to fall onto your index finger.
5. Roll the knife in your palm, so that the blade tip is pointing up at you
6. Finish closing the knife in your prefered manner (e.g. thumb in round hole)

That sounds a lot less natural than it is in practice. If you close backlocks this way it is only a difference of lateral/ side pressure on the lock release tab instead of the downward pressure applied to the lockbar of a backlock to release it.

Hope this helps. I hear a lot of repeating of the difficulty of operating a comp lock with gloves or when concerned about dropping. I suggest that those who have those issues try this closing method. For me it basically eliminates the concern or risk of dropping and some of the challenge of operating with gloves on (depends a lot on which gloves).

I will say that closing a large liner lock with (esp. bulkier) gloves on may be a little easier than using the comp lock.

The point is mostly that i like to use both the 'pinch method' and the '(mid) backlock method' to close my Shaman.

Yes, that´s one good way of closing a comp.lock!

BUT: Exactly THAT method is - for me - even a bit safer and more "natural" with a linerlock, and why I prefer a linerlock in real, outdoor use!

Why? With a linerlock:
1.) You don´t have to move your thumb to the top of the handle (cause you release the linerlock with your index finger on the downside of the handle) - the knife remains more "natural" in your hand
2.) You already HAVE the thumb "free" to guide the blade to closed (cause you don´t need the thumb for releasing the lock) when the lock is released
3.) Utilizing THIS method the fingers are in the blade path on a linerlock and a comp.lock anyway.

Anyway, this particular method is still much with a backlock, because the blade STAYS in the half-closed position (and does not freely flop around) plus you can just press on the spine and it will "snap" into closed position

[James Y]

My method of closing the compression lock is:

Use middle finger to depress lock tab.

Use index finger to push the back of blade.

Use thumb in thumb hole to finish closing.

It’s very easy, quick and safe to do. And I barely need to adjust my grip on the knife to do it.

Jim

[Wartstein]

My method of closing the compression lock is:

Use middle finger to depress lock tab.

Use index finger to push the back of blade.

Use thumb in thumb hole to finish closing.

It’s very easy, quick and safe to do. And I barely need to adjust my grip on the knife to do it.

Jim

Thanks, I will try this! :)

[Doc Dan]

This has been an interesting discussion, so far.
The Military is genius in the way the choil is accomplished. The pommel is done right, also. The grip is very nice, too. Perhaps a CL. With a button would be a solution to keeping all the best things and upgrading the lock to a Spyderco original.

[Bloke]

Use index finger to

Thanks, I will try this! :)

[Enactive]

Use index finger to

Thanks, I will try this! :)

LOLZ! Alex! :D :p

[James Y]

Use index finger to

Thanks, I will try this! :)

I’ve been Bloked!

Jim

[Pancake]

Guys, don't know how do you see it, but I think there is something changing.
Last Millie sprint run was in 2018.
In 2019 there was one exclusive.
Comparing to the horde of PM2 and Para3 that is really nothing.
What I am trying to say is that maybe Millie is a iconic model and I would love to own one (but not the base S30V) but is not that appealing to the market at this time. So changing a few things like 4 way clip and comp lock would be good.

[Wartstein]

Guys, don't know how do you see it, but I think there is something changing.
Last Millie sprint run was in 2018.
In 2019 there was one exclusive.
Comparing to the horde of PM2 and Para3 that is really nothing.
What I am trying to say is that maybe Millie is a iconic model and I would love to own one (but not the base S30V) but is not that appealing to the market at this time. So changing a few things like 4 way clip and comp lock would be good.

Right, the never ending stream of Para 3 variants is a bit unbelievable (somewhat cool knife, but really not Spydercos most optimized small folder imho).

Concerning the Millie: I think NO Spyderco in the (XL..) Millie-size did get many sprints or exclusives (look at the great Manix XL for example or even the Police!) - so it´s not the "Millie", it´s the size I figure.

Again: Changing the liner lock Millie (with the best linerlock I personally am aware of and the advantages a linerlock has over a comp.lock especially in the scenarios the Millie was designed for) into yet ANOTHER comp.lock knife would be a huge change imho. And not for the better necessarely.

I am bit puzzled anyway: I can´t remember ANY Millie-owner on this forum complaining that the Millie liner lock was not strong enough or would have failed on them. Not one accidental release in use that I am aware of (other than with the comp.lock, here I can remember two incidents where the lock was released accidentally when bearing down on the handle). Not one account that the Millie would be "a thread to the fingers" when closing it... so WHY change this prooven and iconic design? Just to add another comp. lock knife to the huge amount of (great, no doubt!) models that already feature this lock and one can choose from?

[Wartstein]

This has been an interesting discussion, so far.
The Military is genius in the way the choil is accomplished. The pommel is done right, also. The grip is very nice, too. Perhaps a CL. With a button would be a solution to keeping all the best things and upgrading the lock to a Spyderco original.

Doc, I almost always agree with you or even benefit from your contributions and knowledge.

In this case though I have to disagree. A comp.lock, button or not, imho would not be literally an "upgrade" over the perfectly functional Millie linerlock (and as said in my post above: I can´t remember a single account on this forum stating that it would be not strong or reliable enough in practical use), it would rather be an alternative that some might like better than the great Millie linerlock, some might not (and I happen to be in the latter camp... )

Though to be honest: I never tried a button comp.lock, so I am not fully entitled to have a solid opinion here. Still, why change something that´s perfect already?

[Bill1170]

I agree with those who say we want the current Military to remain as it is (unless Spyderco can produce a design that truly improves everything about this iconic design). The Military is probably the finest implementation of the liner lock in production today. It is one of the only liner locks I’ll carry to use. Were Spyderco to introduce a “Para 4” or a “Military 2” with a compression lock, it would be great to keep the existing Military in the lineup.

[Wartstein]

I agree with those who say we want the current Military to remain as it is (unless Spyderco can produce a design that truly improves everything about this iconic design). The Military is probably the finest implementation of the liner lock in production today. It is one of the only liner locks I’ll carry to use. Were Spyderco to introduce a “Para 4” or a “Military 2” with a compression lock, it would be great to keep the existing Military in the lineup.

+1

[anycal]

There is definitely something to be said for tried-and-true design.

But maybe a change is what the Military needs in order to get others to try it. Or to get the existing fans to buy another one. I get that if something really works for you, a revision is not appealing. I can relate. At the same time, I am willing to try new things. Same great design and ergonomics, with a different lock, why not? It is in a prototype stage, so there is something there. Someone at Spyderco has a vision for the new configuration.

I really do like the current Military. Especially the CQI version. I have three of them. But honestly, I use smaller knives way more often. So I am most likely not interested in another color/steel combo. For me, I need a pretty significant change to add another one to my flock. A compression lock and tip up carry would definitely do it.

[Bloke]

Hi Doc, I’m of the impression the Military isn’t the best seller for Spyderco. Simply because of it’s size for one and laws governing blade length for another.

Mr Glesser seems to bend over backwards to give us kooks what we want, but we’re far from a true representation of what the general populous want and what they are prepared to pay. But I’m a financial midget and not a businessman’s boot lace and more than anything, I’m just thinking out aloud.

The fact that Spyderco pump out PM2’s and PM3’s like they do leads me to believe they sell very, very well. Surely if the Military’s sold like it’s squat little brothers we’d be seeing the Mighty Military in all the same flavours also.

I may well be wrong but I’d hazard a guess and say knives like the Police and Chief aren’t Spyderco best sellers either. To that end, irrespective of how accomodating Mr Glesser may be, if indeed “big” knives don’t sell too well tooling up for yet another “big” knife just doesn’t make sense, at very least not to a bunny like me.

Just my $AU0.02c worth, is all. :)

[James Y]

I love the Military as is.

I can legally carry it in most areas in my state, but don’t always. I also love the SS Police and Police 4 LWT, but don’t always carry them, either. Because for my own life right now, I rarely need to use a folder with a 4” or 4”+ blade. And for some cutting chores, a blade under 4” is actually easier to use. For some cuts, a shorter blade gives better leverage than a longer one. I’m not saying that one isn’t needed because of my own uses, but that there’s probably a much bigger market for medium-sized folders (3” to 3.5”).

I’m not really certain that changing the Military to a compression lock would raise its sales to equal demand for the PM2 and Para3. It’s not as if the Military would be among the first choices of a Spyderco that a non-knife person would be likely to buy. And changing the lock on it wouldn’t necessarily change that.

Jim

[Pancake]

In the end of the days, where are very small group here in forum and we don't have much market power....only time will tell what will happen to Millie

[Bloke]

It’s not as if the Military would be among the first choices of a Spyderco that a non-knife person would be likely to buy. And changing the lock on it wouldn’t necessarily change that.

Jim

I think you’re spot on, Jim. :)

And I reckon it’s exactly the same for the tip up down nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of tip orientation? :rolleyes: