Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

[Wartstein]

Can someone explain what taking the choil away and an extra 1/4 inch of blade would do to dramatically change a PM? Especially at the expense of safety for closing and handling?

How would no choil make it more dangerous to close and/or handle a PM2? :confused: A PM2 isn't a backlock. Fingers are never in the way of the blade when it closes. I don't understand how it would be more dangerous to handle either.

A backlock can also be closed with fingers never in the way of the blade, just like a comp. lock.

[spyderg]

I’m not much a fan of edge all the way back to the handle on folders, it makes it far to easy to get crud in the pivot. I do like efficient use of space however so I prefer a finger choil to just a large sharpening choil or notch, at least then it’s there for a good reason even if I tend not to use a finger choil as on most knives my hand or more accurately my thumb is too large to land on the ramp while using the choil. (I know run on sentence). Also I like when the tip extends as far as possible in the closed handle.

[Wartstein]

I’m not much a fan of edge all the way back to the handle on folders, it makes it far to easy to get crud in the pivot. I do like efficient use of space however so I prefer a finger choil to just a large sharpening choil or notch, at least then it’s there for a good reason even if I tend not to use a finger choil as on most knives my hand or more accurately my thumb is too large to land on the ramp while using the choil. (I know run on sentence). Also I like when the tip extends as far as possible in the closed handle.

This.
Though I think often times it is due to blade length restrictions (for example under 3.00" or 3.50") in many regions that lead to a perfectly ergonomic handle, but with a blade that does not "fill" it completely (in order to remain under a certain length limit)

Though knives like the Manix could have a blade about 3mm longer and still stay under the 3.5" limit. The handle would offer space for that, the knife would get a tad more versatile imho and what has to be considered too: The blade gets shorter anyway the more it gets sharpened...

[Pancake]

I have zero interest in a no-choil knife if it doesn't also position the grip very close to the edge. Models like the Caribbean and Lil Temp 3 are the best of both worlds. Knives that have no choil but also have an inch of space between the grip and the edge make no sense at all to me.

That is the same reason why I don't own Cold steel Code 4 or Recon 1. Those knives are in quite a winners in my eyes, but the damm area between edge and your first finger is just too big, that is like a inch of wasted space. Make it into a choil, so it could be somewhat useful, but at this stage is just wasted space.

[navin johnson]

Can someone explain what taking the choil away and an extra 1/4 inch of blade would do to dramatically change a PM? Especially at the expense of safety for closing and handling?

How would no choil make it more dangerous to close and/or handle a PM2? :confused: A PM2 isn't a backlock. Fingers are never in the way of the blade when it closes. I don't understand how it would be more dangerous to handle either.

The discussion is pertaining to blades sharpened all the way to the handle. I was using a PM as an example. And for the record I actually close a PM exactly like I close a back lock catching the blade with my finger in the choil.

My knives are tools and I use them as such. I have had a number of lock failures due to debris that a ricasso or choil has or would have protected my hand. Thus I will not own a folder that does not have a choil or a ricasso.

I do not like sharpening notches or choils. With fast rough cuts both snag on material. I much prefer a ricasso that slides off the material if it comes in contact instead of snagging on it. So a blade sharpened to the handle would be fine with me as long as there was still a ricasso covered by the handle to use for closing and hand protection.

I would like to see more ricassoed lockbacks. The stretch (not the newest one) is ok for me because of its minimalist choil. YMMV.

[Robishere]

As I have the Gayle Bradley2 and several other 3.75 inch blades with the cutting edge all the way back with M4 or 20cv and titanium I REALLY want a 3 inch the same. Titanium and an M4 or cts-xhp or similar blade with no front choil.

I DIRELY wanted to love the brouwer till I looked at the lack of cutting edge. I almost threw up. I was just sick. Same as the chaparral, same as the sage, same as so many others....they sacrificed the blade cutting edge for an even bigger grip. It is another redundant 3 inch blade with a choil in s30v.

Look at these proportions!

[Wartstein]

As I have the Gayle Bradley2 and several other 3.75 inch blades with the cutting edge all the way back with M4 or 20cv and titanium I REALLY want a 3 inch the same. Titanium and an M4 or cts-xhp or similar blade with no front choil.

I DIRELY wanted to love the brouwer till I looked at the lack of cutting edge. I almost threw up. I was just sick. Same as the chaparral, same as the sage, same as so many others....they sacrificed the blade cutting edge for an even bigger grip. It is another redundant 3 inch blade with a choil in s30v.

I don´t mean to offend you by any means, but if your highest priority really is to have a huge selection of 3 inch blades in the smallest possible handle in the mid- to high end models, than Spyderco just might not be the right brand for you...

To be clear:
I am even one of those who values a good amount of cutting edge (mainly cause I do some minor food prep on the road with my folders)
And there certainly are models I generally like, but personally whish they would offer more edge (I´d like a "choil-less", "longer edged" Native for example or a Stretch 2 that would have a longer, totally "handle filling" blade (and by that more edge)

BUT: Generally I love Spydercos approach of designing a knife from the edge out and emphasizing great ergos
And somehow I adapt that approach for myself when choosing a new Spyderco knife:

1.) (And really my FIRST step): What amount of cutting edge (so not blade length) do I really need for a) my general, main EDC or b) for a more "specialized" "niche" knife (for example small knife for IWB carry when running)
2.) In most cases Spyderco will give me that desired edge length in a perfectly ergonomic handle with often times several grip options, but still well carryable size
3.) If I decide, that the overall, closed package (so the carry in pocket) indeed is too large for me for the edge I get: Ok, then that particular model is not for me (but many other people will most likely love it), but there are certainly other models who are...

You also have to consider different hand sizes / hand "geometries": You mention the Chaparral for example: Without its choil it would not work for my handsize, much like the DFly would not work without a choil.

Another point, but I won´t go intoe detail here: A longer BLADE has its advantages over a shorter one, even if both have the exact same amount of cutting edge (Reach, angle of the blade and clearance of the fingers when cutting on a cutting board....)