Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

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Wartstein
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:36 am

Pancake wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:33 am
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:08 am
Pancake wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:38 am
p_atrick wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:28 pm

Polestar could really shine ( pun intended) if made in Golden with some cool steel.

I think the Polestar would profit already if the steel was "just" upgraded from BD1 to BD1N...
Yes it would, but I am not sure if the maker is willing to work with this steel....
Made in Golden or Taiwan, it would be a nice competition to PM2

It would certainly be my choice OVER the PM2 then... ;)
Last edited by Wartstein on Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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JRinFL
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby JRinFL » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 am

Pancake wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:20 am
JRinFL wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:01 am

It would work just like the Centofante.
How it would work with the same Native 5 handle??? Front of N5 is different to Centofante, on Native there is that half circle for choil, Centofante front is different, you would need new handle for that knife
Yes, it is a compromise design with a tiny little bit of the ricasso/kick showing in the cut out and still giving about 1/2 inch more edge. Looking at one of my many Natives, it would work and would not look bad at all. It is just an idea to save Spyderco money on development and speed delivery.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Woodpuppy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:44 am

I think the Tenacious LW (Resilience too) would make a fantastic Salt in LC200N! They are both very aesthetically pleasing designs, they just need to be made in Golden!
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Stuart Ackerman » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:08 pm

aaronkb wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:04 pm
I think a comp lock would be next to impossible without a finger choil...
Actually, difficult, but achievable... :D

I have a design which Sal saw a while back. that has no choil at all.

The edge is almost at the "guard" part of the handle. :eek:

The design is nearly done, and I will make a couple for Eric's perusal at some stage. :)

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Wartstein
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:17 pm

Stuart Ackerman wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:08 pm
aaronkb wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:04 pm
I think a comp lock would be next to impossible without a finger choil...
Actually, difficult, but achievable... :D

I have a design which Sal saw a while back. that has no choil at all.

The edge is almost at the "guard" part of the handle. :eek:

The design is nearly done, and I will make a couple for Eric's perusal at some stage. :)
I´d really be interested to see your design! :rolleyes:

And: The Kapara actually is a comp. lock knife with almost no choil (at least not in the blade, and the handle part of the Kapara choil is solely there for ergonomic reasons and not mandatory due to a comp.lock, right?)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Woodpuppy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:12 pm

Caribbean is Comp lock / no choil; but it is a fairly tall handle.
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Robishere » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:24 pm

I have asked time and again for more cutting edge. Especially in a 3” or under and hopefully no spyder hump.

I was so worked up for the brouwer until its blade had the cutting edge reduced so much.

I had over 40 spyderco knives, now I have 4. I am selling them for other brands. I have:

Titanium chaparral
Gayle Bradley 2
Lined g10 native 5
M390 titanium para2

I finally got to the point of acceptance. A 3” spyderco HAS to have a choil and sacrifice cutting edge and has to be very very tall. (Unless Gayle Bradley designs it)

I accepted that having a native means you own the sage, stretch, lil native, all of the bug knives, chaparral, manix, the list goes on...3” plastic handles and finger choil. The rest are for the better part redundant.

The 2 photos below line up handles for length and cutting edge for length.

Quite honestly the para 2 will be next to go and be replaced. I have accepted that chevy will not build a snowmobile and Ford will not build a helicopter and a Komodo Dragon cannot sing the star spangled banner, and spyderco knives have very very short cutting edges if they are 3” and under.
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:49 pm

Funny you show the 0470. I used mine at work on Monday and Tuesday, I'm so used to finger choils on my Spyderco knives that I actually went to choke up and grabbed the edge of the knife!! Thankfully I was wearing my cut protective gloves.

I actually took a pic a while back of my Military and the 0470 together, pretty amazing that the cutting edge was almost the same, yet the 0470 is a way smaller knife.
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Pancake » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:32 am

Stuart Ackerman wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:08 pm
Actually, difficult, but achievable... :D

I have a design which Sal saw a while back. that has no choil at all.

The edge is almost at the "guard" part of the handle. :eek:

The design is nearly done, and I will make a couple for Eric's perusal at some stage. :)
What is this, Stuart Ackerman casual bombshell?! :D
I am quite interested what you designed.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
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Re: Golden made no choil knife

Postby archangel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:11 am

The Deacon wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:19 am
I have an extremely strong preference for models with a usable 50/50 choil and a midlock, so zero interest here, regardless of lock type.

I'm with you, except I wouldn't say I'm extremely pro choil. I just happen to find it useful to be able to come really close to the cutting edge with my index finger. It just feels right. Nothing wrong with no-choil spydies per se.
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby navin johnson » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:02 am

Understanding the difficulty of designing a folding knife and how one can't just randomly pick a blade, lock, and handle and make it work.

Understanding that these tools need to be made for purposes and not individuals.

Can someone explain what taking the choil away and an extra 1/4 inch of blade would do to dramatically change a PM? Especially at the expense of safety for closing and handling?

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby wrdwrght » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:31 am

Pancake wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:59 am
I think this model is missing from Golden made spydies.
Your thoughts?
Why is Golden important? Not judging, just curious.

Regardless, it looks like the Golden-built Siren is very close to what you want.

But, unlike the Taichung-built Caribbean, the Siren’s edge does show (in YouTube footage) a bit of ricasso/kick before reaching the handle.

I judge my Caribbean superb in just about every way, but two. And I suspect the Siren—she IS calling me—will be the same with one possible exception.

About the Caribbean, I can’t get my blade to drop (on pinching the compression lock) without having loosened the pivot and introduced a side-to-side blade-play that I detest. Beyond this problem is the other: I’m habituated to the Spyderco’s hallmark choils/notches for one-handed bite-free blade-closures. I close a PM2 without any worry; can’t say the same for my necessarily stiffish Caribbean.

The Siren, being a mid-lock, offers my favorite blade-closure but I worry there is not enough ricasso to break the fall of the closing blade. It’s telling that Eric got bit during that Blade Show video... I await reports from the field.

I suspect that the choil/notch-habituated among us will have to change their ways to enjoy completely what a well-built full-edge Spydie has to offer, wherever made.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Golden made no choil knife

Postby Evil D » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:32 am

archangel wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:11 am
The Deacon wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:19 am
I have an extremely strong preference for models with a usable 50/50 choil and a midlock, so zero interest here, regardless of lock type.

I'm with you, except I wouldn't say I'm extremely pro choil. I just happen to find it useful to be able to come really close to the cutting edge with my index finger. It just feels right. Nothing wrong with no-choil spydies per se.


I have zero interest in a no-choil knife if it doesn't also position the grip very close to the edge. Models like the Caribbean and Lil Temp 3 are the best of both worlds. Knives that have no choil but also have an inch of space between the grip and the edge make no sense at all to me.
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby sal » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:14 am

Having more edge is different than having the edge come close to the handle.

Also the lock plays a big part in solving the question. Eg: Reave Integral Locks ( RIL ), Walker Linerlocks, Compression locks are not in the plane of the blade. They come in from the side. Back-Locks, Ball locks, are in the plane of the blade and design becomes critical, especially when trying to get more edge, or have the edge come closer to the handle.

How important is blade length / handle length?

sal

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby ThomC » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:28 am

The more I use knives the more I understand and appreciate a sharpening choil. My puukko is much easier to sharpen thanks to it. The PM2 however has a tendency to snag the medium stone's box edge when I sharpen it, forcing me to put it on a cloth or elevate it somehow. One of the reasons why I didn't pick up the Caribbean, for example.
Plus, I think it'd hinder the way I sometimes hold the knife.
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby sal » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:47 am

Hi ThomC,

We don't like to put in sharpening choil in blade for a couple of reasons:

1) They tend to snag on certain materials like rope.
2) They tend to hook the TriAngle Sharpmaker.
3) It's easier to add one than it is to remove one.

sal

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby Pancake » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:53 pm

wrdwrght wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:31 am

Why is Golden important? Not judging, just curious.

Regardless, it looks like the Golden-built Siren is very close to what you want.
Just because Golden is missing a model like this. With value line, you have Tenacious, Resilience and so on, in Taichung you have Caribbean, Sliverax, but nothing like it in a Golden line.

Siren is close, but not quite there. Like, it is very nice and I would like to own one, but I am not going to buy it.

If a Tenacious was made in Golden with Cru-Wear or something like that, it would blow everything out of water. But for now, I saving for Caribbean or something else that will come in next Reveal
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby BornIn1500 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:39 pm

navin johnson wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:02 am
Can someone explain what taking the choil away and an extra 1/4 inch of blade would do to dramatically change a PM? Especially at the expense of safety for closing and handling?
How would no choil make it more dangerous to close and/or handle a PM2? :confused: A PM2 isn't a backlock. Fingers are never in the way of the blade when it closes. I don't understand how it would be more dangerous to handle either.
Last edited by BornIn1500 on Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby BornIn1500 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:55 pm

Pancake wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:38 am
Polestar could really shine ( pun intended) if made in Golden with some cool steel.
I've been hoping for a Polestar with a compression lock for awhile. I looked at how close the blade comes to the spine when closed, and it's definitely far enough away that a comp lock would work well in the current configuration and still leave enough room for the cutout. As far as comp locks with no choil, there's the Caribbean at 3.70" blade and there was the Lil Temp 3 at 2.90". The Polestar would be perfect in the middle at 3.30". It fits the category of no choil, comp lock, mid size, and a leaf shape blade. Maybe that's too niche for the knife world? Maybe not? I do know that a polestar with a comp lock would be the perfect Spyderco for me :D . The ergonomics and size are superb, but it would be better if that big cutout for the liner lock wasn't there. That's really my only complaint about the current Polestar and why the comp lock would be great.

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ThomC
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Re: Golden made no choil knife - edge all the way to handle

Postby ThomC » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:13 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:47 am
Hi ThomC,

We don't like to put in sharpening choil in blade for a couple of reasons:

1) They tend to snag on certain materials like rope.
2) They tend to hook the TriAngle Sharpmaker.
3) It's easier to add one than it is to remove one.

sal
Actually I was refering to the beard (?) of the finger choil. I understand that they're not necessary on a pocket knife, but I like it on longer blades.
European amateur knife enthusiast
Hikes and outdoors galore

In the knoife box :Millie, Rex 45 Shaman, ESEE 6HM, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : Tool steel/CE/SE Millie, Native 5, Rex 45 Native Chief, K2, Slysz Bowie, K390 Police 4


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