My struggle with the Native

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VooDooChild
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#21

Post by VooDooChild »

Wartstein wrote:
VooDooChild wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 am
The cat is a cheap sports car, the chaparral is a nice sports car, and the native is one **** of a truck.

I can take all 3 to the grocery store, but there is only one Im taking to the construction site.
Ever used a Chap on the construction site? If not, try. I bet you´ll be surprised... ;)

(To be clear: I am not a construction worker, but as a matter of fact helped a friend with construction work. Deliberately carried the Chap to test it, and it did just great).

I don´t refer to you personally, VooDooChild, so no offense meant, but just as a general statement:
Sometimes I have a feeling that even experienced knife users /knife people just believe and state things without actually really having tested /prooven those themselves. I even did a related thread some time ago (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84681)
Believing, that 2mm stock, short blades would be too weak for harder tasks is one of this "knife myths" that often get repeated and in my experience (in the truest sense of the word) are not true.
If there is a blade part one has to worry about, it´s the tip. And thin blade does not mean necessarely (too) fragile tip (blade shape, tapering, grind and steel play of course an important role concerning how fragile or not a tip really is)
Im not too worried about what I would do with it. Im worried about what other people would do with it. Ill be doing some painting and real work next week and will be chosing my knives wisely. As opposed to my normal job of show up and watch youtube. Point is I can already hear the whole "hey do you have a knife?" And then getting it back with the tip broken off. Because someone had to pry off a paint lid and couldnt be bothered to find a screwdriver. Living in Florida I have also been through plenty of hurricanes. Point is if you stayed through it or got back into town early you better be ready to get to work. There are some knives I will carry in those situations and some I wont. The chaparral really isnt on my radar for hard use. I like it just fine, I wouldnt have it if I didnt. But maybe its a mental thing, I just dont want to beat on it.
"Rome's greatest contribution to mathematics was the killing of Archimedes."
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#22

Post by Wartstein »

VooDooChild wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:18 am
Wartstein wrote:
VooDooChild wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 am
The cat is a cheap sports car, the chaparral is a nice sports car, and the native is one **** of a truck.

I can take all 3 to the grocery store, but there is only one Im taking to the construction site.
Ever used a Chap on the construction site? If not, try. I bet you´ll be surprised... ;)

(To be clear: I am not a construction worker, but as a matter of fact helped a friend with construction work. Deliberately carried the Chap to test it, and it did just great).

I don´t refer to you personally, VooDooChild, so no offense meant, but just as a general statement:
Sometimes I have a feeling that even experienced knife users /knife people just believe and state things without actually really having tested /prooven those themselves. I even did a related thread some time ago (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84681)
Believing, that 2mm stock, short blades would be too weak for harder tasks is one of this "knife myths" that often get repeated and in my experience (in the truest sense of the word) are not true.
If there is a blade part one has to worry about, it´s the tip. And thin blade does not mean necessarely (too) fragile tip (blade shape, tapering, grind and steel play of course an important role concerning how fragile or not a tip really is)
Im not too worried about what I would do with it. Im worried about what other people would do with it. Ill be doing some painting and real work next week and will be chosing my knives wisely. As opposed to my normal job of show up and watch youtube. Point is I can already hear the whole "hey do you have a knife?" And then getting it back with the tip broken off. Because someone had to pry off a paint lid and couldnt be bothered to find a screwdriver. Living in Florida I have also been through plenty of hurricanes. Point is if you stayed through it or got back into town early you better be ready to get to work. There are some knives I will carry in those situations and some I wont. The chaparral really isnt on my radar for hard use. I like it just fine, I wouldnt have it if I didnt. But maybe its a mental thing, I just dont want to beat on it.

Thanks for your reply!

Sure, pushed to the "extremest of extremes" a Native will probably be tougher (though I am not entirely sure, given it has no liners while the Chap has) - and the Native TIP is stronger without any doubt.

Just generally, not restricted to Native and Chap, and not referring to you particullary: It sometimes puzzles me a bit, when people settle for a knife of a certain edge length (lets say the Native / Chap edge length) and think a knife with thicker blade stock would necessarely be much more "hard use".

It is not the BLADE itself that will snap in even hard use small folder tasks, it is the very TIP of a knife.
And thick stock knives can have very delicate tips (Military...)

Honestly, concerning people pry open paint lids: I have a feeling the Millie tip would rather snap than the Chap tip (don´t have my Millie anymore so I can´t compare the tips right now, but the Chap tip is rather sturdy for the thin stock due to the leaf shape geometry)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#23

Post by Jazz »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:13 am
Jazz, I normally really like you posts and opinions and have great respect for your obviously wide and practical experience concerning Spydies (and I mean it!)

But, with all respect and no offense meant, your above post puzzles me a bit.

How do you come to the definite assertion that the Chap and Native are "eniterely different knives", the former being "light use", the latter "heavier use?

Thanks, bro. Okay, maybe not entirely different, but I just think the Native is more of a work truck than a sports car, like was just said. Not disrespecting the Chappie. I have 2 of them. They are solid and work well. They are also back locks, which are #1 in my opinion. (Also, I drive a car, not a truck. Trucks are a huge waste of the world's fuel, if they're not needed, but that's a whole different bag of worms. :rolleyes: )
- best wishes, Jazz.
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#24

Post by Wartstein »

Jazz wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:41 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:13 am
Jazz, I normally really like you posts and opinions and have great respect for your obviously wide and practical experience concerning Spydies (and I mean it!)

But, with all respect and no offense meant, your above post puzzles me a bit.

How do you come to the definite assertion that the Chap and Native are "eniterely different knives", the former being "light use", the latter "heavier use?

Thanks, bro. Okay, maybe not entirely different, but I just think the Native is more of a work truck than a sports car, like was just said. Not disrespecting the Chappie. I have 2 of them. They are solid and work well. They are also back locks, which are #1 in my opinion. (Also, I drive a car, not a truck. Trucks are a huge waste of the world's fuel, if they're not needed, but that's a whole different bag of worms. :rolleyes: )

Thanks for your kind reply! :)

I think I´d just like to see people really giving the Chap a try in harder use and experience the "delightfull surprise" it was for me when I found out what it really can take and how amazingly well it works in "harder use", despite looking a bit "fragile" at first sight. It is really not.
But again, to be fair: When tip strength is a main concern, the Native without any doubt is the better choice!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#25

Post by VooDooChild »

Wartstein wrote:
VooDooChild wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:18 am
Wartstein wrote:
VooDooChild wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 am
The cat is a cheap sports car, the chaparral is a nice sports car, and the native is one **** of a truck.

I can take all 3 to the grocery store, but there is only one Im taking to the construction site.
Ever used a Chap on the construction site? If not, try. I bet you´ll be surprised... ;)

(To be clear: I am not a construction worker, but as a matter of fact helped a friend with construction work. Deliberately carried the Chap to test it, and it did just great).

I don´t refer to you personally, VooDooChild, so no offense meant, but just as a general statement:
Sometimes I have a feeling that even experienced knife users /knife people just believe and state things without actually really having tested /prooven those themselves. I even did a related thread some time ago (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84681)
Believing, that 2mm stock, short blades would be too weak for harder tasks is one of this "knife myths" that often get repeated and in my experience (in the truest sense of the word) are not true.
If there is a blade part one has to worry about, it´s the tip. And thin blade does not mean necessarely (too) fragile tip (blade shape, tapering, grind and steel play of course an important role concerning how fragile or not a tip really is)
Im not too worried about what I would do with it. Im worried about what other people would do with it. Ill be doing some painting and real work next week and will be chosing my knives wisely. As opposed to my normal job of show up and watch youtube. Point is I can already hear the whole "hey do you have a knife?" And then getting it back with the tip broken off. Because someone had to pry off a paint lid and couldnt be bothered to find a screwdriver. Living in Florida I have also been through plenty of hurricanes. Point is if you stayed through it or got back into town early you better be ready to get to work. There are some knives I will carry in those situations and some I wont. The chaparral really isnt on my radar for hard use. I like it just fine, I wouldnt have it if I didnt. But maybe its a mental thing, I just dont want to beat on it.

Thanks for your reply!

Sure, pushed to the "extremest of extremes" a Native will probably be tougher (though I am not entirely sure, given it has no liners while the Chap has) - and the Native TIP is stronger without any doubt.

Just generally, not restricted to Native and Chap, and not referring to you particullary: It sometimes puzzles me a bit, when people settle for a knife of a certain edge length (lets say the Native / Chap edge length) and think a knife with thicker blade stock would necessarely be much more "hard use".

It is not the BLADE itself that will snap in even hard use small folder tasks, it is the very TIP of a knife.
And thick stock knives can have very delicate tips (Military...)

Honestly, concerning people pry open paint lids: I have a feeling the Millie tip would rather snap than the Chap tip (don´t have my Millie anymore so I can´t compare the tips right now, but the Chap tip is rather sturdy for the thin stock due to the leaf shape geometry)
Thats always sort of the issue isnt it though? The tougher we start making a pocket knife, the worse it starts getting at slicing and lightweight carry. There are some things I wont due with some knives. The tip on my chief or police 4 lightweight or whatever is never going to beat a sheepsfoot or something like the recently announced bombshell in terms of how much force it takes until the tip snaps. Variety is the spice of life. This is why I like having different kinds of knives, because some are better at some things and others are better for other things. I usually try to choose accordingly if I know Im going to be doing a certain type of task and need a knife. Going on the boat, grab a salt. Even a possibility of me lending the knife out, grab something that takes a beating. Certain types of stuff I will only use a razor blade/ razor knife for. Im just going to have to graduate to one of those people who carry several different knives on them.
And yes, the blade geometry on the chaparral is really good.
"Rome's greatest contribution to mathematics was the killing of Archimedes."
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anycal
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#26

Post by anycal »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:13 am

Jazz, I normally really like you posts and opinions and have great respect for your obviously wide and practical experience concerning Spydies (and I mean it!)

But, with all respect and no offense meant, your above post puzzles me a bit.

How do you come to the definite assertion that the Chap and Native are "eniterely different knives", the former being "light use", the latter "heavier use?

Again, I assumed that too, before having actually tried a Chap. But its 2mm thick (a thickness that many traditional knives that were and are used "hard" also have) short blade is sturdy enough for any folder task that the Native could do, except maybe stabbing the knife deep into wood and prying /deliberatley trying to snap the tip (still, I think a for example PM2 tip (seen as a sturdy knife by many) would snap earlier than the Chaps).

Plus, many real cutting tasks it does even better than the Native, just cause the blade is a lot thinner and, well, slicier.

And sure, in a way the Native "folds up nice and short", but certainly not relatively to the edge it gives and one can actually work with.
That may not matter to most people, but still, for me personally when I can get in the Chap a much smaller package, with the same actual egde, that can take anything I´d do with the Native, plus has a blade stock that imho is more suited to a small knife and a handle that feels more stable in hand, I´ll take that

And to be clear: The Chap is built very solid and "hard use" with its full steel liners (the Native has none anymore) and perfectly executed backlock (which the Native has too).

Wartstein, you're a trip. Between your blade length OCD, your constant backlock brigade march on almost every thread, the frequent wall of text, yet your gracious and almost apologetic preface to most of your statements, I can't help it but to be entertained.

You really don't have to try to convince everyone of what, in your opinion, is the best knife, lock, blade to handle ratio. By now, you made it perfectly clear in majority of your 4000 posts.

On topic. I too use my Native for tasks that I would not want to subject my Chaparral to. This is due to the difference in the blade stock thickness and thicker handle allowing for a better grip. And, in regards to your highlighted text. I remember you were adamant that an Endura tip is much stronger that the one on a Military, simply because it is a bit taller then the ticker tip of a Military, without anything to really back it up. Now you note that you don't see how a 2mm Chaparral stock is any stronger than a 3.3mm stock of the Native? And noting that the Chaparral tip is stronger than a PM2? Do you have any proof of that?

Anyways, love you brother. You keep being you.
Peter
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#27

Post by ChrisinHove »

The Native is the only one knife you will ever need.... but who wants that!!!
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#28

Post by James Y »

I’ve had two Native 5’s; one G-10 and one lightweight. I came to realize that the design doesn’t suit me. Neither of the two grips it forces the hand into feel comfortable or natural to me with this particular design.

Jim
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#29

Post by Wartstein »

anycal wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:34 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:13 am

Jazz, I normally really like you posts and opinions and have great respect for your obviously wide and practical experience concerning Spydies (and I mean it!)

But, with all respect and no offense meant, your above post puzzles me a bit.

How do you come to the definite assertion that the Chap and Native are "eniterely different knives", the former being "light use", the latter "heavier use?

Again, I assumed that too, before having actually tried a Chap. But its 2mm thick (a thickness that many traditional knives that were and are used "hard" also have) short blade is sturdy enough for any folder task that the Native could do, except maybe stabbing the knife deep into wood and prying /deliberatley trying to snap the tip (still, I think a for example PM2 tip (seen as a sturdy knife by many) would snap earlier than the Chaps).

Plus, many real cutting tasks it does even better than the Native, just cause the blade is a lot thinner and, well, slicier.

And sure, in a way the Native "folds up nice and short", but certainly not relatively to the edge it gives and one can actually work with.
That may not matter to most people, but still, for me personally when I can get in the Chap a much smaller package, with the same actual egde, that can take anything I´d do with the Native, plus has a blade stock that imho is more suited to a small knife and a handle that feels more stable in hand, I´ll take that

And to be clear: The Chap is built very solid and "hard use" with its full steel liners (the Native has none anymore) and perfectly executed backlock (which the Native has too).

Wartstein, you're a trip. Between your blade length OCD, your constant backlock brigade march on almost every thread, the frequent wall of text, yet your gracious and almost apologetic preface to most of your statements, I can't help it but to be entertained.

You really don't have to try to convince everyone of what, in your opinion, is the best knife, lock, blade to handle ratio. By now, you made it perfectly clear in majority of your 4000 posts.

On topic. I too use my Native for tasks that I would not want to subject my Chaparral to. This is due to the difference in the blade stock thickness and thicker handle allowing for a better grip. And, in regards to your highlighted text. I remember you were adamant that an Endura tip is much stronger that the one on a Military, simply because it is a bit taller then the ticker tip of a Military, without anything to really back it up. Now you note that you don't see how a 2mm Chaparral stock is any stronger than a 3.3mm stock of the Native? And noting that the Chaparral tip is stronger than a PM2? Do you have any proof of that?

Anyways, love you brother. You keep being you.
Thanks for putting your critizism so nicely (and I mean it!) :)

I´ll think about it, but can say right now: I guess you got me wrong in many points (and that might very well be caused by my "frequent walls of text" - in my mother tongue I would need 1/4 of the words, but in English I am never sure if I could actually make my point :o )

- backlock brigade march: I often times stated that I like EVERY Spyderco lock, just prefer the backlock. You know, why I (and I guess others "accused" of being in the "backlock brigade") came to talk about this lock rather frequently? For me it was the at first astonishing, based on no real experience critizism of the backlock "Outdated", "inferior", "only very slow and awkward to use one handed" and so on. I really could not believe it and was sorry for the many,maybe not too experienced lurkers on this forum who might believe that and never try a backlock knife as a consequence...

- Endura tip stronger than a Millie tip: The "drop" towards the Endura tip indeed WAS implemented by Sal to make the tip stronger. Just by looking at an Endura and a Millie tip one can see which one is more fragile, and I can remember threads where people literally stated that they snapped their Millie and PM2 tips, but never an Endura tip..the Millie tip is not really thicker, sure the bladestock at the heel is thicker, but the blade longer than the Enduras, so it tapers more acutely toward the tip

- No, I am totally convinced that the 3.2 bladestock of the Native is "stronger" than the 2.00 mm of the Chap! All I said is: When I actually TRIED the Chap, I could do ANY even hardest use task I could do with my Native without doing any damage to the Chap blade, and so I was puzzled that people stated the Chap was "only light duty" when in fact (prooven by practical experience) it really is not!
Tested to the extreme (but in NO task I´d ever perform) the Native will "beat" the Chap in strength, no doubt!

- Chap tip stronger than a PM2 tip: All I said was I THINK this could be true. The PM 2 certainly is thicker when you look at the spine of the blade, but the Chap tip a lot less acute when you look at the blade sideways. I don´t know which one would snap first

- Better grip on the Native than on the Chap: Not for me. Again, I was totally expecting that to be the case, but practical use taught me differently. In MY L to XL hand (and there are at least two comparison vids on youtube where the testers feel the same) the Chap is more stable, has less tendency to roll, and the index finger is better supported by the choil when really holding firm to the handle and whittle wood or the like. Another thing I really was not expecting, but just turned out to be the case in practical use..

And yet another wall of text... :p
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#30

Post by James Y »

IMO, the pointy tips, for example between the Manix 2, the Military, PM2 and the Para 3, are going to be equally vulnerable to snapping off, regardless of blade stock thickness at the spine towards the base of the blade. Because the very tip itself is a thin, sharp, fine edge. Some blades like the Military, PM2 and PM3 are more acute due to the profile, but any tip at the end can break off.

Although the E4/D4, with their dropped points, are more stable than the E3/D3 were, as well as the Military and it’s descendants.

Jim
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Wartstein
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#31

Post by Wartstein »

James Y wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:14 pm
IMO, the pointy tips, for example between the Manix 2, the Military, PM2 and the Para 3, are going to be equally vulnerable to snapping off, regardless of blade stock thickness at the spine towards the base of the blade. Because the very tip itself is a thin, sharp, fine edge. Some blades like the Military, PM2 and PM3 are more acute due to the profile, but any tip at the end can break off.

Although the E4/D4, with their dropped points, are more stable than the E3/D3 were, as well as the Military and it’s descendants.

Jim

But doesn´t a leaf shape (Manix, Chap...) essentially offer quite the same "dropped point" as the E4 / D4 shape? Just via a "continous" vs. a more "abrupt" drop? Both lead to a less acute and by that potentially less fragile tip, right?

At least that´s what I believe and what should be a factor that makes these tips more robust than the Millie-family tips. Of course other factors (stock thickness, tapering, steel, grind...) also come into play!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#32

Post by Enactive »

Initially i didn't weigh in because i am basically an enthusiast/ evangelist on the Native and didn't really want to just come here and tell you why you should or will like the Native. :D :eek:

I mostly prefer the "humpless" Spydies and generally prefer the Native family, including the Shaman and Chief. I do really like the Stretch, but so far that is the only Spydie with a blade hump that i have really clicked with. :spyder:

I am not too worried about the marginal tip strength differences between the Native, Chap, Manix etc. Surely if you break or chip your tip when you grind it back to shape it will be a blunter stronger tip going forwards. ;)

I mostly agree with Darby (and Sal) about blade/ handle ratio being not a priority. I want the handle to work and the blade to work and i like a well unified design. The Native5 provides a solid grip behind the choil for even Large sized hands, whereas I don't think the Cat does even try for that.

When i first got a Native 5 i did not think that i liked the grip behind the 50/50 choil. Turns out with some use i find it to be a great grip and even better in reverse behind the choil.

In terms of comparing the cutting edge lengths of the three, according to Spyderco:

Native 5 62mm
Chap 60mm
Cat 57mm

The Native is a great all rounder. Since we already have the Delica, i have no interest in making the Native 5 more Delica-like. The Cat is in a different price point category and is a liner lock. In that price range and with a liner lock, I think the Efficient is more like the Native-- with even a bit more cutting edge (67mm).

One of my absolute favorite thing about Spyderco is the variety and range of products, designs, materials etc-- including ones that i have no interest in. The very diversity is amazing!
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#33

Post by ugaarguy »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:14 am
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:27 am
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:13 am
I have used the Chap plenty. I have owned and carried one for years. I also carve seasoned hardwoods with my knives. The handle on the Chap is too small and too thin for me when using it very hard. On the other hand, I love the ergos on the Native when carving.

You talk about measurements a lot. I don’t usually see eye to eye with folks on here when they spend too much time analyzing the numbers.
Thanks for your reply! I really just wanted your impressions (which you gave now), since I know how a knife feels in hand of course varies from person to person and hand to hand.

As said, I was really surprised and not expecting at all that for me personally the Chap feels more "stable" (less likely to roll, more locked in) than the Native when using the knives "harder" (especially when carving). And the Chap actually has a a good amount of grip area, when counting the choil in.

/
Sorry, but what do you mean by the sentence I highlitghted? I don´t fully comprehend it (due to not being an English Native speaker).
I take it as "I generally don´t agree with folks here when they spend too much time analyzing numbers" - correct?!
If so, I would not fully get that. I don´t "analyze numbers", but just state the plain fact, that the Native has a rather short cutting edge compared to its closed lenght (and that echoes exactly the point the OP - Doc Dan - is making): A lot shorter than the Delica, which has the same closed size as the Chap, and as short as the Chap, which offers a lot more compact overall package for that.

For some people cutting edge lenght is a plus (and it´s hard to argue against that a longer edge makes a knife more versatile) and I happen to be one of those people. :)
For me it is mostly how thin the Chap is that makes it less comfortable in harder use.

Your English is great and you interpreted me correctly. I envy people who are bilingual. We use lots of idioms and euphemisms so English can be a little cryptic at times.

I just don't put too much emphasis on blade to handle ratios or blade to edge ratios. Seems like the focus should be on what works. I want a handle that fits my hand and a blade that is the right size for what I am doing.

According to the numbers the Native has bad ratios but in use I find it confidence inspiring. In use I find that larger handle and smaller blade creates a knife with a lot of control. I like that.
I discovered that at a pretty young age when I inherited a stockman pattern slip joint that belonged to my late grandfather. I loved the control of the short length of the grafting (sheepsfoot) and spey blades relative to the handle. That's probably why I like designs with finger choils so much. Some things just work.
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#34

Post by VooDooChild »

Lets talk about that grip behind the choil in case anyone wanted to know. I have large hands and wear large gloves. I can get a 4 finger grip behind the choil just fine. It is a little cramped but its not a problem.

I said earlier that I didnt like the native 5 at first. I figured there must be something to people liking it so much so I forced myself to carry my native 5 salt every day. I was going to give it a few weeks and if I still didnt like it then it wasnt for me. On day 4 for what seemed like no reason I pulled it out to use it and it just worked. All of a sudden I really liked it.

The next day I went home to try to figure out why. The conclusion I reached was, in the non choil grip, I was wanting to put the magority of my grip leverage on the wrong fingers. I didnt notice this until I compared it with my salt 2. On the salt 2 or delica the handle works well if you push on the thumb ramp and keep a tight grip with your ring and pinky finger while keeping a looser grip with your first and middel finger. The native 5, at least for me, is the opposite. It worked well when I pressed on the spine jimping with my thumb and put the magority of handle grip in my first and middle finger, and kept a looser grip with my ring and pinky finger. (In the behind the choil grip). I know its different for everybody but this is the difference that I noticed for me personally.
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Capt'n Boatsalot
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#35

Post by Capt'n Boatsalot »

Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:14 am

I don’t hate the Native. I like the Delica far better. I think the Native would be a stellar knife if the choil were lost, grip lengthened as a result, an the cutting edge lengthened.
This is exactly how I felt about the Native, and why I finally sold my two last year.

I liked the overall size and blade length, but the choil was larger than what worked for me relative to the blade length. If they made a choil-less Native, and adjusted the handle to maximize the grip length, that would be perfect.

And I too decided that for me, the Delica is better in this size / weight range.

I prefer a knife with a longer handle and a relatively shorter blade (like the Delica, PM2, Military, etc).
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#36

Post by VooDooChild »

Capt'n Boatsalot wrote:
Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:14 am

I don’t hate the Native. I like the Delica far better. I think the Native would be a stellar knife if the choil were lost, grip lengthened as a result, an the cutting edge lengthened.
This is exactly how I felt about the Native, and why I finally sold my two last year.

I liked the overall size and blade length, but the choil was larger than what worked for me relative to the blade length. If they made a choil-less Native, and adjusted the handle to maximize the grip length, that would be perfect.

And I too decided that for me, the Delica is better in this size / weight range.

I prefer a knife with a longer handle and a relatively shorter blade (like the Delica, PM2, Military, etc).
There is a certian size range where I dont like the choil. Its right in the native 5 and para 3 size range. Even though I really like the native 5 I would love a non choil version. Any smaller and choils start to become necessary. Any larger and it doesnt matter. But right in that 4 inch handle length area I would be fine if spyderco didnt do them.
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#37

Post by Doc Dan »

I think it was Bearfacedkiller (it might have been someone else, here) who used a Chaparral to remodel his house and it did great.
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#38

Post by Doc Dan »

I like the Native but can’t seem to love it. The first time I picked up a Delica my hand was in love. Still, I want a rugged folder in this size range. I think the Native backlock knife is easily fixed by keeping the backlock, removing the choil, lengthening the grip area and the cutting edge. The could call it the Native Tecumseh.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



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Re: My struggle with the Native

#39

Post by Bloke »

Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:45 pm
used a Chaparral to remodel his house and it did great.
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Re: My struggle with the Native

#40

Post by Doc Dan »

Bloke wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:52 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:45 pm
used a Chaparral to remodel his house and it did great.
Image
Yep, that must be it :D :D :D
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



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