S30v chipping on new knife after first use

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Rinzler
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S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#1

Post by Rinzler »

I only have one Spyderco in S30V, a regular manix 2, and after its first use the blade is chipped pretty substantially.

After buying the knife months ago the first use was this week cutting zip ties. I justed noticed that the blade is badly chipped. It's a factory edge so I don't believe this is normal.

Has anyone else had this problem with a new S30V blade?
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#2

Post by Tims »

Yep I’ve encountered this with s30v, it took some heavy reprofiling for it to settle down.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#3

Post by ugaarguy »

Many folks have reported it with many steels on factory edges. The generally accepted explanation is that the edges get burnt and become brittle from the factory sharpening on belt grinders. Most folks report that the brittleness goes away after several resharpenings. I've had the same experience on a CTS-204P bladed knife from another manufacturer. I've not cut anything crazy like zip ties, or bumped the blade into chain like fence while clearing vegetation, since I switched to a more office oriented job a few years ago.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#4

Post by AwayFromMySpydieHole »

ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Many folks have reported it with many steels on factory edges. The generally accepted explanation is that the edges get burnt and become brittle from the factory sharpening on belt grinders. Most folks report that the brittleness goes away after several resharpenings. I've had the same experience on a CTS-204P bladed knife from another manufacturer. I've not cut anything crazy like zip ties, or bumped the blade into chain like fence while clearing vegetation, since I switched to a more office oriented job a few years ago.



Cutting zip ties is crazy? Lord have mercy some of y’all would faint if you saw what I used my knives on.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#5

Post by ugaarguy »

AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:05 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Many folks have reported it with many steels on factory edges. The generally accepted explanation is that the edges get burnt and become brittle from the factory sharpening on belt grinders. Most folks report that the brittleness goes away after several resharpenings. I've had the same experience on a CTS-204P bladed knife from another manufacturer. I've not cut anything crazy like zip ties, or bumped the blade into chain like fence while clearing vegetation, since I switched to a more office oriented job a few years ago.



Cutting zip ties is crazy? Lord have mercy some of y’all would faint if you saw what I used my knives on.
Ehh, poor choice of adjective. I'm not currently cutting anything that would really strain an edge.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#6

Post by driftingfir »

Had the same problem with my manix 2 s30v. I would sharpen it with a course diamond, trading the Burr back and forth a few times to remove the chips and any bad or burnt steel. This is what fixed my problem with mine, so good luck.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#7

Post by Liquid Cobra »

My buddy just bought an m390 manix and had the same issue.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#8

Post by Jazz »

Also could be a lot of wire edge from the factory chipping off?
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#9

Post by Ankerson »

ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Many folks have reported it with many steels on factory edges. The generally accepted explanation is that the edges get burnt and become brittle from the factory sharpening on belt grinders. Most folks report that the brittleness goes away after several resharpenings. I've had the same experience on a CTS-204P bladed knife from another manufacturer. I've not cut anything crazy like zip ties, or bumped the blade into chain like fence while clearing vegetation, since I switched to a more office oriented job a few years ago.

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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#10

Post by curlyhairedboy »

Zip ties aren't hard use in my experience, but it depends on how much you're twisting as you pull.

I find they're a job best suited for my hawkbill Dfly2.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#11

Post by ugaarguy »

Ankerson wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:37 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Many folks have reported it with many steels on factory edges. The generally accepted explanation is that the edges get burnt and become brittle from the factory sharpening on belt grinders. Most folks report that the brittleness goes away after several resharpenings. I've had the same experience on a CTS-204P bladed knife from another manufacturer. I've not cut anything crazy like zip ties, or bumped the blade into chain like fence while clearing vegetation, since I switched to a more office oriented job a few years ago.

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Image
And your point is?
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#12

Post by Sharp Guy »

I've cut plenty of zip ties and thick poly banding at work with S30V knives and haven't experience any chipping yet. But...I've also learned from many of you to not twist the blade while cutting those types of things. Most of those knives have also been reprofiled at least once.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#13

Post by Tims »

Sharp Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:09 am
I've cut plenty of zip ties and thick poly banding at work with S30V knives and haven't experience any chipping yet. But...I've also learned from many of you to not twist the blade while cutting those types of things. Most of those knives have also been reprofiled at least once.
This is the key for edge health when cutting harder materials like zip ties. Lateral stress, especially at acute angles can be hard on an edge. We often push our edges to the limits of stability, knowing how to use those edges is part of it.

Relevant here also is choosing the appropriate tool for job, or in this case, edge for the job. Choosing the appropriate edge for the properties of the steel too.

Unless you enjoy sharpening of course. In that case, go to town!
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#14

Post by The Deacon »

Ankerson wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:37 pm
Image

Neat photo, Jim. However, I'm pretty sure you don't really think most folks cut zip ties that way. Cutting a zip tie that's laying on a hard, flat surface where you can prevent both the zip tie and the blade from twisting, and cutting a zip tie that's free to move and put side loads on a blade are two vastly different scenarios.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#15

Post by Cambertree »

Rinzler wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:35 pm
I only have one Spyderco in S30V, a regular manix 2, and after its first use the blade is chipped pretty substantially.

After buying the knife months ago the first use was this week cutting zip ties. I justed noticed that the blade is badly chipped. It's a factory edge so I don't believe this is normal.

Has anyone else had this problem with a new S30V blade?
Yes I had microchipping issues with a brand new S30V PM2, which skewed my opinion of S30V for a long time.

Recently I detailed my attempts to fix the problem in the Community Sharpening Journal thread, over a few weeks and several posts.

I received some good advice from Jpm2 and others there.

Here’s a couple of post links in case they’re helpful:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84678&p=1371454#p1371454

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84678&p=1380638#p1380638

Basically I had to sharpen away at least a couple of millimetres of edge to get the apex to stabilise.

To be clear, I also have a Kapara and a Yo2 and Lefty Millie in S30V and I have not had the same issues with those knives, so it certainly doesn’t seem to be the case with all S30V knives.

Interestingly, the CATRA organisation in Sheffield has said that most of the production blades they test actually show issues at the initial apex due to overheating from powered grinding.
Last edited by Cambertree on Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#16

Post by bearfacedkiller »

If you cut them by sliding the blade under the zip tie and twisting then chipping is likely. If not then something else is going on.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#17

Post by tonijedi »

Zip ties are hard because of 2 reasons, and none is the actual zip tie:

- the already mentioned instability / lateral forces
- zip ties are often zipped against metal tubes and other hard surfaces and you're likely to cut against those surfaces
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#18

Post by Ankerson »

The Deacon wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:12 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:37 pm
Image

Neat photo, Jim. However, I'm pretty sure you don't really think most folks cut zip ties that way. Cutting a zip tie that's laying on a hard, flat surface where you can prevent both the zip tie and the blade from twisting, and cutting a zip tie that's free to move and put side loads on a blade are two vastly different scenarios.

I have cut a lot of zip ties over the years, normally I just slip the blade under and slowly apply pressure until it breaks.

If it's really tight I use something else other than a knife to cut it. Side cutters or nippers make short work of the tight ones.
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#19

Post by Evil D »

I'd blame it on the factory edge. It's a common issue with any steel.

tonijedi wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:31 am
Zip ties are hard because of 2 reasons, and none is the actual zip tie:

- the already mentioned instability / lateral forces
- zip ties are often zipped against metal tubes and other hard surfaces and you're likely to cut against those surfaces


This about sums it up. If you're just push cutting through them like Jim's pics show, that's a whole different type of cut and shouldn't damage an edge as it's just push cutting through plastic. If you did that same job against a steel surface it would be a different story. When you cut through plastic like that it usually "pops" through the plastic all at once and the edge hits the material under the zip tie with a good amount of force and I think that's where the edge damage occurs, if it isn't done by the lateral/twisting force. Folding a zip tie over the edge and pulling through is also a pretty low stress cut in my experience. Most of the time when you cut a zip tie, it's wrapped around something pretty tight, so you're either push cutting through it and banging the edge onto whatever it's wrapped around or you're sliding the blade under the zip tie and pulling/twisting the blade to cut it which puts lateral force on the edge and chips the tiny teeth of the edge. I do think this improves with sharpening and a cleaner edge than you get from the factory but the lateral force thing may always be an issue with some steels and edge angles/edge finishes.
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Ankerson
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Re: S30v chipping on new knife after first use

#20

Post by Ankerson »

Evil D wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:55 am
I'd blame it on the factory edge. It's a common issue with any steel.

tonijedi wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:31 am
Zip ties are hard because of 2 reasons, and none is the actual zip tie:

- the already mentioned instability / lateral forces
- zip ties are often zipped against metal tubes and other hard surfaces and you're likely to cut against those surfaces


This about sums it up. If you're just push cutting through them like Jim's pics show, that's a whole different type of cut and shouldn't damage an edge as it's just push cutting through plastic. If you did that same job against a steel surface it would be a different story. When you cut through plastic like that it usually "pops" through the plastic all at once and the edge hits the material under the zip tie with a good amount of force and I think that's where the edge damage occurs, if it isn't done by the lateral/twisting force. Folding a zip tie over the edge and pulling through is also a pretty low stress cut in my experience. Most of the time when you cut a zip tie, it's wrapped around something pretty tight, so you're either push cutting through it and banging the edge onto whatever it's wrapped around or you're sliding the blade under the zip tie and pulling/twisting the blade to cut it which puts lateral force on the edge and chips the tiny teeth of the edge. I do think this improves with sharpening and a cleaner edge than you get from the factory but the lateral force thing may always be an issue with some steels and edge angles/edge finishes.

I found that if you just turn the knife slowly without twisting it etc it works very well.

Could do the same thing with a screwdriver...
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