Sticky compression lock

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Jet B
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Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Is a long term sticky lock on a Paramilitary 2 considered a warranty issue? I had the knife for 10 years almost and the sticking just wouldn't go away and constantly annoyed me. I would do the pencil lead and sharpie thing but it always came back.

Anyway, it's moot now, because I tried fixing it myself and introduced vertical blade play and it's currently at Spyderco. They informed me it's not covered by warranty, I'm guessing because I ruined it trying to fix it myself. I was just wondering if I should have just sent it in with the sticky lock and they would have considered that a warranty issue and fixed it? I just want to know in case I ever buy another PM2 and it has a sticky lock. (I buy online so can't check them before hand.) But the constant sticking on a compression lock when it's bad can actually start to hurt your fingers when disengaging it so it's pretty annoying.

Thanks,
Mike

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby JonLeBlanc » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:04 pm

I'm not sure if I have an answer to the warranty question specifically, but I can tell you that I have a Para3 52100 that came with a very sticky lock. I slapped some liquid silicone in that puppy and bam, smooth as Johnny Cochrane lol
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:07 pm

Good to hear it fixed it for you. Believe me, I tried every form of lubricant I had for almost 10 years and it just wouldn't break in. It was a DLC coated blade though, so maybe that's why.

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Evil D
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Evil D » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:11 pm

In the future try loosening the stop pin screws and rotate the stop pin to a different position and see if that helps any. I'm really surprised it never smoothed out over a 10 year period, that's kinda crazy. I don't think this would ever be considered a warranty issue since it doesn't really make the knife unusable but I totally get how annoying it is. If it happened again I'd just return it to wherever you buy it from and get a different one if you don't wanna risk screwing it up trying to fix it yourself.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:25 pm

Thanks for that tip. I did actually try rotating the stop pin and tried varying tightness on the scale retention screws. Good old internet had lots of tips over 10 years so I was pretty surprised it never fixed it either.

If anyone ever reads this, don't try polishing the locking surfaces yourself. It seems the compression lock has very close tolerances and it doesn't take much to introduce a vertical blade play into it if you take too much material off. I'm guessing that is actually probably why they are so prone to sticking since if the tolerance isn't exactly perfect it will either stick or have play.

Joshua J.
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Joshua J. » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:56 am

I feel like Spyderco needs to invent a square stop pin to really perfect the lock. Using a round tapered surface can't allow for much more than a pinpoint sized contact patch. Edit: I'm just going off memory, that part is clearly wrong, but who knows maybe I've still got a tiny sliver of a good idea in there.
The Compression Lock is unique in that the contact points are transverse to each other, there's just a nagging itch in my brain that would have something to do with it.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:27 am

there's a lot of locks (liner and frame come to mind) where the contact between lock ramp (on the blade) and lock face is just a point. On a well-designed lock it's a line contact.

From what i've seen of spyderco's compression locks, it's definitely a line contact, at least on the golden models.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
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acer
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby acer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:44 am

I think the compression lock has been improved especially going by my para 3 .your right my early para 2 phurchases of approx 10 years ago long gone now did have more stick of that I am sure . Have a camo para 2 in collection no stick but little use .would recommend a para 3 and military cool big brother little brother user combo brace . Not sure on the lwt para 3 happy with my g10 good luck out .

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:43 am

acer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:44 am
I think the compression lock has been improved especially going by my para 3 .your right my early para 2 phurchases of approx 10 years ago long gone now did have more stick of that I am sure . Have a camo para 2 in collection no stick but little use .would recommend a para 3 and military cool big brother little brother user combo brace . Not sure on the lwt para 3 happy with my g10 good luck out .
I appreciate that info. I never thought that maybe the newer Para models might have less lock stick. I guess I'm just feeling salty because it really was one of my favorite knives and it sucks I ruined it trying to fix the sticking. I do have an old M390/carbon fiber sprint Military that I've been carrying more since sending away my Para 2, and I have an original Paramilitary that lives in the garage and gets used for cardboard duty so it's not like I'm suffering too much from lack of Spydies in my life. But I'm guessing everyone here understands what it's like to obsess over a single favorite knife...

I'll try to repair it myself once I get it back. (It will take some careful thinking...)

Maybe someday I'll be able to justify spending on a new Para 2 or 3 in S110, just not a huge fan of the blurple color. Although, after this experience, I don't know if I'll be able to purchase another compression lock model without handling it first to see if the lock sticks.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:58 am

Jet B wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:43 am
acer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:44 am
I think the compression lock has been improved especially going by my para 3 .your right my early para 2 phurchases of approx 10 years ago long gone now did have more stick of that I am sure . Have a camo para 2 in collection no stick but little use .would recommend a para 3 and military cool big brother little brother user combo brace . Not sure on the lwt para 3 happy with my g10 good luck out .
I appreciate that info. I never thought that maybe the newer Para models might have less lock stick. I guess I'm just feeling salty because it really was one of my favorite knives and it sucks I ruined it trying to fix the sticking. I do have an old M390/carbon fiber sprint Military that I've been carrying more since sending away my Para 2, and I have an original Paramilitary that lives in the garage and gets used for cardboard duty so it's not like I'm suffering too much from lack of Spydies in my life. But I'm guessing everyone here understands what it's like to obsess over a single favorite knife...

I'll try to repair it myself once I get it back. (It will take some careful thinking...)

Maybe someday I'll be able to justify spending on a new Para 2 or 3 in S110, just not a huge fan of the blurple color. Although, after this experience, I don't know if I'll be able to purchase another compression lock model without handling it first to see if the lock sticks.
did you happen to have any pictures of the lockup issue? I can't imagine vertical play developing without significant changes to the lock geometry.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Watu, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:11 pm

No pictures sorry. I did it myself though by trying to fix the sticking. At first I was very careful but very light polishing actually made the sticking much worse for some reason... I then got a bit over zealous and took too much material off. It has very obvious vertical play, so much so that the warranty department said I should retire the knife although I still feel it's usable.

I think I can fix it, but I'll need to take it to someone with a welder to put a tack of metal back on and then try to rebuild the lock face to proper tolerance... Won't be easy to get it right since the angle and gap needs to be perfect. ( Probably a pipe dream that I'll get it working again haha).

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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby VooDooChild » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:14 pm

I really want to say that I remember reading somewhere that you can very carefully and slowly peen a compression lockbar tab back to within tolerance. Still might stick though.

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:26 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:14 pm
I really want to say that I remember reading somewhere that you can very carefully and slowly peen a compression lockbar tab back to within tolerance. Still might stick though.
Great idea, I'll probably try that before trying to build back the metal on the other side. Maybe if the Spring liner is soft enough I can recover that millimeter, but it's doubtful.

I was able to to get tight lock up previously by adjusting the spring over further but she gets pretty hard to use with so much spring pressure. I don't believe the compression lock is really as self adjusting as some other lock designs that use a similar concept.

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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby aaronkb » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:31 pm

I sent one in and they improved it... not gonna say “fixed” bc it came back with no stick but some play. The second I took it apart and reassembled it to install custom scales, some of the stick came back but not as bad as before.

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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Pointy britches » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:58 am

I once had some lock stick after I disassembled and reassembled one of my pm2s. Along with a decreased action, it didn't even sound the same. I tried everything. Rotating the stop pin, pivot tension, graphite, silicone, none of it worked. I took it apart again and my problem was the orientation of the stop pin. I would assume it's the same both ways but i flipped it around and boom! Lock stick gone that signature pm2 sound was back and action was free dropping again. I'm not saying it needs to go in a certain direction, but it solved my issues.

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Evil D
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Evil D » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:28 pm

Pointy britches wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:58 am
I once had some lock stick after I disassembled and reassembled one of my pm2s. Along with a decreased action, it didn't even sound the same. I tried everything. Rotating the stop pin, pivot tension, graphite, silicone, none of it worked. I took it apart again and my problem was the orientation of the stop pin. I would assume it's the same both ways but i flipped it around and boom! Lock stick gone that signature pm2 sound was back and action was free dropping again. I'm not saying it needs to go in a certain direction, but it solved my issues.


I think this is definitely an issue with a knife that has been used for a long time and then taken apart. The stop pin will wear with the lock bar and then you take it apart and the pin doesn't go back in the same position, then you have a worn lock bar that's mating up to a different/fresh surface. Hopefully the new floating stop pin prevents this sort of thing from happening.

Who remembers the ovoid shaped stop pins? Seemed like a pretty smart idea but finicky.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Jet B
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby Jet B » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:52 am

I had tried incrementally rotating the stop pin and testing the lock. Didn't seem to help out. I realize now that I should have just gotten used to the sticking because it means that you have a really tight lockup, and it's a flaw in the design of the compression lock that if QA isn't really picky, you will either get a knife with a sticky lock or vertical blade play. The spring isn't very self adjusting in the set up.

I wish they would just sell me a new spring liner and maybe a new blade so I can fix it and use it another 10 years, but it must not be financially viable to keep parts around I guess.

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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby kodai78 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:33 pm

That’s tough losing your favorite knife. Why not save up for a sprint? I have come to love both my PM 2’s. S35 VN and S110 V. The blurple will grow on ya! I hated the Coyote on the S 35 model so much I changed to custom scales but I switched back recently and I like the brown just fine. No lock stick in either model. Before or after changing scales. I must be lucky.
:spyder: Smock, Baby Jess Horn CE, Spydiechef, Schempp Bowie,Ti Fluted Military, Titanium Military, Native S30 V and G10, PM 2 in S35VN, and S110V, Manix 2 LW BD1, Sage 5, Positron black CPM S30V, Chaparral w/Raffir Noble scales, SuperLeaf VG 10, Ladybug H1, Dragonfly 2 in ZDP 189 and Superblue/420J1 and H1, Delica in ZDP 189, Clipitool Standard, the Cook’s knife VG10, Santorum, paring and utility knives, all in MBS 26. :spyder:

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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:43 am

i have polished that area on my lil native and para 3, got rid of lock stick actually by polishing where the washers are and polishing the washers themselves.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V comp B, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
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Re: Sticky compression lock

Postby JRinFL » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:20 pm

"I wish they would just sell me a new spring liner"-Jet B

I find it frustrating that they don't have PM2 liners available. It's not like the factory is across the World where there would be some difficulty in getting and storing the parts. Instead, for lack of a simple part, another durable good goes to the scrap heap.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder:


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