Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

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zuludelta
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Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#1

Post by zuludelta »

We all know serrated H-1 supposedly has one of the highest ratings of any knife steel in Spyderco's in-house CATRA tests, but has anyone done a reliable comparison of the performance of serrated H-1 vs. serrated LC200N as far as edge retention goes?

It's common knowledge that LC200N vastly outperforms H-1 in plain edge performance, but how do they compare as serrated edges? I know one can't just assume that because LC200N outperforms H-1 in plain edge means it will do the same in serrated edge (where H-1's outstanding toughness likely plays an outsized role in maintaining the serrations' cutting ability).
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Wartstein
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#2

Post by Wartstein »

zuludelta wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:08 pm
....

It's common knowledge that LC200N vastly outperforms H-1 in plain edge performance, but how do they compare as serrated edges? I know one can't just assume that because LC200N outperforms H-1 in plain edge means it will do the same in serrated edge (where H-1's outstanding toughness likely plays an outsized role in maintaining the serrations' cutting ability).

I guess you had a look at Davids thread? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85045

I know, not an answer to your question, but serrated LC200N seemingly is pretty tough either..
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#3

Post by VooDooChild »

I have alot of serrated h1 and alot of plain edge lc200n. Carrying the sheepsfoot caribbean right now. I hate that I dont have any serrated lc200n because I would gladly do a torture test to destruction of the two.

Ill try to figure out something for my plain edge h1 vs plain edge lc200n tomorrow and see if that helps.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#4

Post by zuludelta »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:14 pm

I guess you had a look at Davids thread? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85045

I know, not an answer to your question, but serrated LC200N seemingly is pretty tough either..
Thanks! And yeah, that thread was what got me wondering if Spyder Edge LC200N offers any perceptible performance improvements to its H-1 counterpart. Because if it doesn't, then H-1 (in serrated form) offers a lot more value given the price difference between, say, a Spyder Edge Salt 2 and a Spyder Edge Native 5 Salt.
VooDooChild wrote: Ill try to figure out something for my plain edge h1 vs plain edge lc200n tomorrow and see if that helps.
Thanks! But don't feel like you have to. It just seems weird that for all the "bro science" being done with knife steels, there doesn't seem to be any head-to-head comparisons of the two most popular rustproof steels in serrated form.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#5

Post by Surfingringo »

Aside from EvilD’s thread, there is very little usage data out there at all about serrated lc200n. I can’t help either because I have never done any testing with it. I have a lot of hours experience using and sharpening serrated H1 and I can say fairly accurately how much use I can get out of it between sharpening. I guess I should get myself some serrated LC200n and use it for a couple of months. It should be fairly easy to compare performance.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#6

Post by Wartstein »

zuludelta wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:56 am
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:14 pm

I guess you had a look at Davids thread? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85045

I know, not an answer to your question, but serrated LC200N seemingly is pretty tough either..
Thanks! And yeah, that thread was what got me wondering if Spyder Edge LC200N offers any perceptible performance improvements to its H-1 counterpart. Because if it doesn't, then H-1 (in serrated form) offers a lot more value given the price difference between, say, a Spyder Edge Salt 2 and a Spyder Edge Native 5 Salt.

...
As much as I love my serrated Pac Salt: The "performance improvement" of serrated LC200N for me would be that it comes in ffg instead of sabre hollow grind.

Though I have to say: One advantage yet of the sabre hollow grind (especially on such a "beater knife" as the pack salt) is that it makes for a more robust tip than ffg. This is more important in SE than in PE, cause SE comes in a chisel grind which makes for a more fragile tip anyway.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#7

Post by Wartstein »

Surfingringo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:03 am
Aside from EvilD’s thread, there is very little usage data out there at all about serrated lc200n. I can’t help either because I have never done any testing with it. I have a lot of hours experience using and sharpening serrated H1 and I can say fairly accurately how much use I can get out of it between sharpening. I guess I should get myself some serrated LC200n and use it for a couple of months. It should be fairly easy to compare performance.

Lance, only just a bit off topic: Do you happen to know if the Siren will come in SE too eventually (if it comes at all that is... just kidding ;) )?

Or maybe the Waterway?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#8

Post by Ric »

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79063&hilit=lc200n
LC200N Caribbean
sal wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 pm
Peter just finished testing the Caribbean models in LC200N. The first shipment just came in with the ceramic ball bearings. The plain edge tested well, about 30% better than plain edge H1. The serrated version tested about 4.8 times better than the plain edge.

We are also learning that H1 may be better at corrosion resistance than LC. We're finding that LC200N by itself is quite resistant to corrosion, but other materials attached to the LC may cause minor corrosion on some cases due to; galvanic reactions of material or accelerants like sulpher in the other materials. This was the case with the LC Mule that came back corroded. We're still testing. (I also need to know if we replaced that Mule?)

sal
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#9

Post by Wartstein »

Ric wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:05 am
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79063&hilit=lc200n
LC200N Caribbean
sal wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 pm
Peter just finished testing the Caribbean models in LC200N. The first shipment just came in with the ceramic ball bearings. The plain edge tested well, about 30% better than plain edge H1. The serrated version tested about 4.8 times better than the plain edge.

We are also learning that H1 may be better at corrosion resistance than LC. We're finding that LC200N by itself is quite resistant to corrosion, but other materials attached to the LC may cause minor corrosion on some cases due to; galvanic reactions of material or accelerants like sulpher in the other materials. This was the case with the LC Mule that came back corroded. We're still testing. (I also need to know if we replaced that Mule?)

sal

Very interesting!! Three points:

- I find an "just" 30 % increase in edge retention (! if that is what Sal is talking about, not entirely clear from that post!) in LC200N over H1 in PLAIN EDGE not very much...would have guessed more

- And the sentence "The serrated version tested about 4.8 times better than the plain edge" does certainly mean the serrated version of LC200N over the plain version of again LC200N, right?

- So: Still no real statement how SERRATED LC200N compares to SERRATED H1...
but given that the work hardening thing seemingly has a LOT more effect in SE H1 than in PE H1, and PE H1 is "just" 30% "worse" than PE LC 200N: SE H1 should probably be "BETTER" than SE LC200N ?!?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#10

Post by Pancake »

I might buy SE Caribbean, depends on how much I am going to like SE......if I have both H1 and LC serrated then I will do some testing.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
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Wartstein
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#11

Post by Wartstein »

Pancake wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:33 am
I might buy SE Caribbean, depends on how much I am going to like SE......if I have both H1 and LC serrated then I will do some testing.

H1 SE you´ll actually have as of today, as far as I can see... :D (you get what I mean... ;) )
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#12

Post by Evil D »

Surfingringo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:03 am
Aside from EvilD’s thread, there is very little usage data out there at all about serrated lc200n. I can’t help either because I have never done any testing with it. I have a lot of hours experience using and sharpening serrated H1 and I can say fairly accurately how much use I can get out of it between sharpening. I guess I should get myself some serrated LC200n and use it for a couple of months. It should be fairly easy to compare performance.


I'm honestly not the best source for edge retention info either, at least beyond a certain point because I keep them sharp. But, I did do all the cutting in that thread on "one sharpening" aside from the very first test where I cut the coax cable, I had to fix edge damage after that but the edge held up great after that. I think if a steel will still slice paper after cutting drywall and tire sidewall, that's good enough for me. Especially with serrations it's more important to me that I can easily fix edge damage without spending an eternity on the Sharpmaker.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#13

Post by JD Spydo »

I've not yet got to try a serrated LC200N blade. But I have a few full SE H-1 blades and they do well. However with all the fanfare I've heard over the years about H-1 being superior in serrated edge performance I personally can't tell a lot of difference between H-1 and VG-10 for instance. I use a couple of serrated VG-10 blades quite a bit and the performance I get from VG-10 in SE is very similar to what I get in H-1.

It goes without saying that LC200N in plain edge does much better than H-1 in PE does. Overall I find that most of the blade steels I've had great luck with in SE all seem to have toughness properties>> I find that steels like ATS-55, GIN-1, AUS-8 and ATS-34 all do really well in SE. However most of the blade steels I've found to be ideal in SE aren't really all that great in PE. VG-10 being one of the few exceptions that I get great performance in both edge types.

But all of that is just based on my personal uses. I really have not conducted any valid side by side tests. But I do find it rare to find a steel that is great in both edge types. I am anxious to test drive an LC200N blade in SE in the near future.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#14

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

I can tell you one thing for certain I bent the teeth on my Jumpmaster2, Spatchcocking a turkey cutting through the bones next to the spine.

The H1 bent rather than break off.

LC200N likely would have broke as would S30V and other harder steels.

the H1 serrations were very easy to fix as well.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#15

Post by Evil D »

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:32 pm
I can tell you one thing for certain I bent the teeth on my Jumpmaster2, Spatchcocking a turkey cutting through the bones next to the spine.

The H1 bent rather than break off.

LC200N likely would have broke as would S30V and other harder steels.

the H1 serrations were very easy to fix as well.


Someone just recently bent a tooth on an LC knife all the way around back against the blade basically 180 degrees and it didn't break off, I can't remember what thread that was.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#16

Post by Haunted House »

I went down this rabbit hole, looking at every thread I could find since LC200N came out. I can’t find one serrated head-to-head test.

But since the early beginning, I saw many people regurgitating “LC200N was better in plain edge, H-1 is better in serrated”.
But I can’t find a head to head comparison anywhere.
I came to the conclusion that it’s likely unfounded.

Evil D’s torture test is the closest thing I’ve found(and a great testament to SE LC200N performance).

Also worth noting- I don’t think the same knife is available in both steels?
I’m looking forward to seeing similar knives tested-
Something like a LC200N native 5 salt SE vs a H-1 Salt 2 SE should match up pretty well for example.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#17

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:04 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:32 pm
I can tell you one thing for certain I bent the teeth on my Jumpmaster2, Spatchcocking a turkey cutting through the bones next to the spine.

The H1 bent rather than break off.

LC200N likely would have broke as would S30V and other harder steels.

the H1 serrations were very easy to fix as well.


Someone just recently bent a tooth on an LC knife all the way around back against the blade basically 180 degrees and it didn't break off, I can't remember what thread that was.
Oh wow now that would be neat to see, I guess it is not as brittle as I imagined after all.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#18

Post by Evil D »

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:40 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:04 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:32 pm
I can tell you one thing for certain I bent the teeth on my Jumpmaster2, Spatchcocking a turkey cutting through the bones next to the spine.

The H1 bent rather than break off.

LC200N likely would have broke as would S30V and other harder steels.

the H1 serrations were very easy to fix as well.


Someone just recently bent a tooth on an LC knife all the way around back against the blade basically 180 degrees and it didn't break off, I can't remember what thread that was.
Oh wow now that would be neat to see, I guess it is not as brittle as I imagined after all.


I would have expected it to chip before it rolls too. I may just have to get crazy and destroy a knife for science.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#19

Post by Ric »

@wartstein
Blade geometry is also important.

4,8 more, not 100% clear but I think also LC200N only.

I would say LC200N is min. 30% better also in SE.
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Re: Serrated H-1 vs. Serrated LC200N?

#20

Post by ladybug93 »

i recently had a small chip in my native salt. not sure what i did, but nothing extreme at all. i was surprised to see it there. mine isn’t se, but it still chipped instead of rolled for what that’s worth.
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