Sprints

[Tucson Tom]

Yes, there is a large difference, I think most people already knew that.

You couldn't prove to me by anything I've read here in the last few years. They always seem to get lumped together, and called Sprints whether they are or not. Most of the gripes don't even apply to Sprints, just Exclusives.

The old timers know the difference. It took me quite some time to get this clear in my mind. Remember that there are new people on the forum who have not been initiated into the secret rites of knife buying. And for those people. here is how I understand it:

Sprints are initiated by Spyderco and are a one time only batch of a given knife in a given form. They are sold by a multitude of dealers. When they are gone, they are gone.

Exclusives are contracted for by some dealer or distributor. They take delivery of the batch and can sell them in any way they please, but in general they sell them in just one place (their online store). They can order additional batches anytime they see fit, but this seems fairly rare.

The exclusives seem to have the most frenzy because a drop date is widely publicized in advance and hordes of buyers sit perched at their keyboards with one eye on the clock waiting to place their order. They can all be sold out in minutes.

[Tucson Tom]

The worst part is if I land a sprint I’m afraid to carry it or use it because it can’t be replaced.

Bah! Just get over it. Carry it, use it, enjoy it. The value is not in the theoretical resale value, but in the joy you get from carrying and using it.

Besides that, knives are incredibly durable. Unless you are a construction worker of otherwise beating the heck out of your knife, carrying it is just not an issue. Taking that up a level, I own a 4x4 truck and I bought it to use it. Hence it has some dents and scratches. I tend to look down my nose at the posers with shiny 4x4 vehicles they just drive around town.

[TkoK83Spy]

I was surprised and amused that people are concerned about the "loss of value" if sprints became less rare. There is a contradiction here -- you can't complain on one hand about inflated prices on the secondary market and loss of value at the same time. Unless you are a flipper yourself. But I think most people who would make this complaint are people with ideas about the value of their "collection" and with absolutely no idea of selling any of their knives. As soon as they start selling at inflated prices don't they then become a despicable flipper?

This...you're definitely onto something right here. That's how I've always felt about people that buy sprints/exclusives just to keep them locked away in a safe and never used. There has to be an ulterior motive, otherwise what's the sense...knives aren't worth THAT much money 20-50 years from now.

[The Deacon]

Part of the original question was how we feel about Sprints.

I guess I'm lucky. I reached the point with my collection several years ago that the only Spydercos I generally purchase are variants of the models I like best and Forum knives. The result is that 99% of the Sprints offered are of no interest to me. The 1% I'm interested in are Japanese models, which never seem to sell out overnight.

I am surprised that anyone is suggesting no more sprints. Sprints are great. The only problem is when you want one and can't get one. The best solution to this is to just man up and face the fact that you just don't get everyone you want in life.

Exactly.

This whole thread started with the simple suggestion that the demand for Sprints has increased and Spyderco could consider making them in bigger runs. That sounds good to me, but there is a definite risk on Spydercos end.

The problem is that run sizes are often determined by either the maker or the steel supplier. So, "bigger" would often mean "double the current size", rather than 10% or 20% bigger. So, yes, greater risk for Spyderco.

Then this thread erupted into a bunch of accusations that distributors were doing bad things, that serial numbers could be used to track these bad things, and the usual complaining about flippers and inflated prices on the secondary market. This is something that I am only mildly annoyed by and can easily ignore. If I want to get worked up about something, there are bigger fish to fry in this world.

And, again, even with serial numbers there's no law against buying multiples, even if it violates a dealer's policy, as long as you pay for them and no law against a dealer selling their stock of a hot item at over MSRP on eBay.

I was surprised and amused that people are concerned about the "loss of value" if sprints became less rare. There is a contradiction here -- you can't complain on one hand about inflated prices on the secondary market and loss of value at the same time. Unless you are a flipper yourself. But I think most people who would make this complaint are people with ideas about the value of their "collection" and with absolutely no idea of selling any of their knives. As soon as they start selling at inflated prices don't they then become a despicable flipper?

It's one of those things where perception trumps reality. If enough people feel a knife is not "rare enough" to buy, Spyderco could get stuck with inventory. There's also the question of when the "bubble" will burst on any given model. Spyderco still has 3 versions of the Mule Team available, the newest of which came out at least 2 years ago.

[Freediver]

The worst part is if I land a sprint I’m afraid to carry it or use it because it can’t be replaced.

Bah! Just get over it. Carry it, use it, enjoy it. The value is not in the theoretical resale value, but in the joy you get from carrying and using it.

Besides that, knives are incredibly durable. Unless you are a construction worker of otherwise beating the heck out of your knife, carrying it is just not an issue. Taking that up a level, I own a 4x4 truck and I bought it to use it. Hence it has some dents and scratches. I tend to look down my nose at the posers with shiny 4x4 vehicles they just drive around town.

Yeah you are right. If I decide to get a s45vn PM2 I’m gonna make sure to use the **** out of it. For the record my 4x4 gets used hard out here.

[Ankerson]

Well, Jim, you may think it's politics and that's your right. Some things are. Mostly it's a practical application of resources and manpower, with the most serious crimes getting the most focus.

You seem to have your mind made up so I'll not waste either one of our time expounding further.

I was concentrating more on the Cyber Crimes Division actually when it comes to these things. They would be the ones to talk to...

Not going to go into the other parts as I have no idea about what they do or don't do.

Or what the U.S. Attorney's Office would deem worthy or headline enough for them to pursue. I would guess they have their own standard of what they want to deal with or not based on something.. Whatever that is.

Cyber Crime isn't exactly headline grabbing I wouldn't think.

I would think they kick it back down to the local LEO's to deal with if not.

[Ankerson]

I was surprised and amused that people are concerned about the "loss of value" if sprints became less rare. There is a contradiction here -- you can't complain on one hand about inflated prices on the secondary market and loss of value at the same time. Unless you are a flipper yourself. But I think most people who would make this complaint are people with ideas about the value of their "collection" and with absolutely no idea of selling any of their knives. As soon as they start selling at inflated prices don't they then become a despicable flipper?

This...you're definitely onto something right here. That's how I've always felt about people that buy sprints/exclusives just to keep them locked away in a safe and never used. There has to be an ulterior motive, otherwise what's the sense...knives aren't worth THAT much money 20-50 years from now.

Some actually are, some increase in value 10X or more.

Depends on what they are though, some things tend to hold their value better than others or increase in value.

Some Randall knives used in WW2 or made in that time period etc are worth thousands now, they cost like $30 back then. They are all worth a lot more today than they cost, a lot more.

[yablanowitz]

No more sprints would solve all the problems! :eek:

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a Winner!

Wait, what, hold on a minute?

I am surprised that anyone is suggesting no more sprints. Sprints are great. The only problem is when you want one and can't get one. The best solution to this is to just man up and face the fact that you just don't get everyone you want in life. This whole thread started with the simple suggestion that the demand for Sprints has increased and Spyderco could consider making them in bigger runs. That sounds good to me, but there is a definite risk on Spydercos end.

Then this thread erupted into a bunch of accusations that distributors were doing bad things, that serial numbers could be used to track these bad things, and the usual complaining about flippers and inflated prices on the secondary market. This is something that I am only mildly annoyed by and can easily ignore. If I want to get worked up about something, there are bigger fish to fry in this world.

I was surprised and amused that people are concerned about the "loss of value" if sprints became less rare. There is a contradiction here -- you can't complain on one hand about inflated prices on the secondary market and loss of value at the same time. Unless you are a flipper yourself. But I think most people who would make this complaint are people with ideas about the value of their "collection" and with absolutely no idea of selling any of their knives. As soon as they start selling at inflated prices don't they then become a despicable flipper?

So, I say bravo for sprint runs and I hope it is worth it to Spyderco to bump the numbers up a notch. Simply because I want some of these great Sprints.

I didn't say it was a good solution, just that it would work.

I agree this went off the rails at lightspeed.

But asking Sal to increase the size of Sprint Runs because you haven't been able to get in on Exclusives is like asking Levi Strauss to make their jeans longer because your shoes are too tight. Even if they comply, it isn't going to help your situation.

[ZrowsN1s]

May as well throw my two cents in. I like sprints and exclusives because rightly or wrongly I believe that they allow me the opportunity to see and purchace more of the speciality knives I want.

I think there have only been two sprints I wanted that I haven't managed to get. Those that have missed out on more might feel differently about it.

Looking at it from the perspective of the companies (spyderco included) who commission these runs, having a demand that exceeds the supply is a Good Thing. If these companies know they stand a good chance of making a profit on their investment in a timely manner, they are more likely to commission more runs. Remember they are gambling with their businesses and livelihoods when they commission these runs. Should for some reason, a particular run not sell.... it hurts their business.

Because of this NEED (not desire) to see return on investment, using FOMO, hype, scarcity, etc. makes sense for them. Same with being able to make smaller runs. It's a smaller gamble for them, AND it drives up demand. They're running a business not catering to the whims of AFI's (when they can do both, magic happens, but business comes first or you lose your business).

There are some good ideas in this thread, it will be interesting to see where it goes. I will end with something I said to Nick on his Youtube page....

This may be entirely selfish on my part... but I LIKE having knives that other people don't have. Speacial, rare knives, that you just can't go buy on a whim. Collector's items aren't collector's items if anyone can go buy one anytime they want, or if lots of people have them. It's like collecting sneakers, rare vinyl, comic books, coins, watches.... rarity is what makes them speacial. I don't have 50 knives because I still need a good one that will last a lifetime. I got a bunch of those. I'm still a sucker for a new or a good design, but most of all I'm looking for rare and/or special.

[Ankerson]

May as well throw my two cents in. I like sprints and exclusives because rightly or wrongly I believe that they allow me the opportunity to see and purchace more of the speciality knives I want.

I think there have only been two sprints I wanted that I haven't managed to get. Those that have missed out on more might feel differently about it.

Looking at it from the perspective of the companies (spyderco included) who commission these runs, having a demand that exceeds the supply is a Good Thing. If these companies know they stand a good chance of making a profit on their investment in a timely manner, they are more likely to commission more runs. Remember they are gambling with their businesses and livelihoods when they commission these runs. Should for some reason, a particular run not sell.... it hurts their business.

Because of this NEED (not desire) to see return on investment, using FOMO, hype, scarcity, etc. makes sense for them. Same with being able to make smaller runs. It's a smaller gamble for them, AND it drives up demand. They're running a business not catering to the whims of AFI's (when they can do both, magic happens, but business comes first or you lose your business).

There are some good ideas in this thread, it will be interesting to see where it goes. I will end with something I said to Nick on his Youtube page....

This may be entirely selfish on my part... but I LIKE having knives that other people don't have. Speacial, rare knives, that you just can't go buy on a whim. Collector's items aren't collector's items if anyone can go buy one anytime they want, or if lots of people have them. It's like collecting sneakers, rare vinyl, comic books, coins, watches.... rarity is what makes them speacial. I don't have 50 knives because I still need a good one that will last a lifetime. I got a bunch of those. I'm still a sucker for a new or a good design, but most of all I'm looking for rare and/or special.

I agree.

I am pretty much the same way, I like having stuff that not everyone else has or that you don't see everywhere. I won't buy the same things they are buying either....

Reason why I am MUCH more selective in what I do buy these days. After I sold of almost all of my old collection the new stuff I buy is generally done with a lot of thought and I am very selective in what I will buy. I am more of a collector now, I still have plenty of users, but MOST as in almost all of what I have are not users these days.

As far as sprints etc go if I can't get one or I miss it, oh well, I will wait for the next one and see if it's something I want.

But then AFI's generally have different things than the typical in the 1st place.

[Tucson Tom]

This may be entirely selfish on my part... but I LIKE having knives that other people don't have. Speacial, rare knives, that you just can't go buy on a whim. Collector's items aren't collector's items if anyone can go buy one anytime they want, or if lots of people have them. It's like collecting sneakers, rare vinyl, comic books, coins, watches.... rarity is what makes them speacial. I don't have 50 knives because I still need a good one that will last a lifetime. I got a bunch of those. I'm still a sucker for a new or a good design, but most of all I'm looking for rare and/or special.

That is part of it for me as well. It is gratifying to have something unique and special that others don't have. Not that I wish that anyone else misses out on something that they want, and if that was the only reason then I would be a pretty lame and stunted individual. I have a fair number of knives now that you can't just go out and buy. Aside from that, there is something special about the knives themselves. Having a Shaman with M4 steel for example (which I have been carrying and using the past couple of weeks). And I am very glad I picked up the Shaman with CF and S90V when it was available. My appreciation for that knife has grown ever since the day I got it. As I remember that was available for a comfortable interval for anyone who wanted it, largely because the price was a bit high -- I almost balked myself. Anyway, both of these are really great knives, that is what I am trying to say, not just poker chips in some collector game.

I look at some of these knives and think, "Wow, how come I am lucky enough to be able to have one of these."

Yeah, sprints and exclusives are great -- despite the negatives.

[TkoK83Spy]

Out of my 20 Spyderco knives, 16 of them are sprints or exclusives. I also desire the limited releases and enjoy using all of them. People are really missing out imo when they instantly flip these models or don't use them. Chances are they are using some kind of exotic steel begging to be used in these models.

[rabbitanarchy14]

I agree and believe this is not a value thing. I have missed sprints in steel's I like and I am unable to find them at a reasonable price. If I can get the sprint I want even on the bay for like 30 -40 dollars over retail I am ok, its these assholes that buy it at 140 and sell it for 250 and saying that its gold. If there was enough to go around my assumption would be correct.

Collections and collectors, collect an entire line not 1 sprint , like all the para 3s sprint and production or all the manix s . That has nothing to do with how many of a sprint they make.

[JRinFL]

It looks like the flippers will win again. Why? Because what is best for flippers turns out to be best for Spyderco. Small runs with unique features means higher resale prices and at the same time it also means a quick return on Spyderco’s investment. Some of us may want it to be easier to get an exclusive for a fair price, but there’s no fighting economic realities. At most, I see a modest increase in the size of sprint runs, with an immediate reduction on the very next if a sprint fails to sell quickly.

[rybu0305]

I have not read this whole thread but I think the idea of higher quantum sprints makes sense but only if the demand is there.

I would just like to see more timely delivery. I order fewer knives because in some cases it is months or even a year before I see it. Even the reveals haven’t delivered when spyderco has anticipated. Case in point, reveal 4 is here but no Siren.

I understand, appreciate, and respect that spyderco does not want to release something to market until it is ready.

I would prefer to not even know about it until it is on a boat from Japan or Taiwan, or ready to ship from the USA so that I know when I place my preorder it is no more than a few weeks away. People will wait for sprints but at a certain point it is frustrating to wait without an accurate timeframe of delivery. Make the window to gratification shorter and it is a win win for all.

[sal]

I really can't speak to long term value but the last time I saw a "PIG" Police model for sale, they were $1.000. We sold them for $50 in 1984 and made 2400 pieces.

We make sprints because some of our customers like and appreciate them. We make exclusives because some of our dealers and distributors ask us to.

The number will more than likely increase due to the larger demand.

sal

[kennethsime]

Chiming in just to say that I love that Spyderco has the ambition to offer daring, innovative designs, premium steels, and multiple versions so everyone can get something they like.

There's only one exclusive I feel like I "missed out" on, and that's the REC Para 3 with the coated flat dark earth blade and OD green handles. I didn't have the money to put out at the time, and I'm not about to put out $500 on eBay. I don't care about the exclusivity at all, I just love the Para 3 and those colors.

So, here's my vote for more Para 3 sprints, especially with earth tones. :-)

[JD Spydo]

I still say it's high time for some Sprint Runs in SE. I would bet that a C-111 Captain, ULIZE, or even an older KRIS model in SE would all sell quite well in SE.

I would also love to see some older fixed blades like the TEMPERANCE 1 and STREETBEAT in an SE Sprint Run.

[VooDooChild]

I still say it's high time for some Sprint Runs in SE. I would bet that a C-111 Captain, ULIZE, or even an older KRIS model in SE would all sell quite well in SE.

I would also love to see some older fixed blades like the TEMPERANCE 1 and STREETBEAT in an SE Sprint Run.

Man youve done 3 post in the last 20 minutes saying something about the temperance 1. You must really like it. I never had a temperance 1 or 2 but I do have the jumpmaster 2. While Im sure there are differences it seems to me that the jumpmaster 2 is sort of like the continuation of the temperance line. Alot of things look very similar. I couldnt see a temperance sprint just because I think it would be too similar to the jm2, but you never know. On the other hand I think you should grab a jumpmaster 2, I think you would like it.

[JMM]

@JD Spydo, so much yes.... a Sprint run Ulize would be so amazing, in Rex45, K390, Cruwear, or 4V....this time around I think it would actually get recognized for the engineering masterpiece that it was, is... Please Sal, do it for the children. Well, I'll whine like a child if that would help...