Sprints

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Ankerson
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:58 am

yablanowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:46 am
Ankerson wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:53 am
Yes, there is a large difference, I think most people already knew that.
You couldn't prove to me by anything I've read here in the last few years. They always seem to get lumped together, and called Sprints whether they are or not. Most of the gripes don't even apply to Sprints, just Exclusives.

I normally don't even bother with exclusives personally, maybe once in a while if something interests me. That doesn't happen often though.

Sprints are more interesting to me generally.

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Re: Sprints

Postby blues » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:02 pm

jdw wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:41 am
Regardless of whether it's legal or not, this all sounds like a tremendous waste of law enforcement's time over a few people missing out on a pocket knife.
It wouldn't meet the threshold for investigation (or prosecution) in my experience, even if it met the underlying statutory requirements.
Last edited by blues on Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:03 pm

gull wing wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 am
Does Spyderco exist for users or collectors?
Spyderco exists to sell their products. Does it matter if they sell to people who actually use their products or to people collect them?
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:06 pm

blues wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:02 pm
jdw wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:41 am
Regardless of whether it's legal or not, this all sounds like a tremendous waste of law enforcement's time over a few people missing out on a pocket knife.
It wouldn't meet the threshold for investigation (or prosecution) in my experience, even if it met the underlying statutory requirements.

Yeah, true, more than likely from what was told by law enforcement in general. "If they don't wrap everything up in a neat little bow for the FBI they won't even look at it."

That was an exact quote from local law enforcement.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:08 pm

sal wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:56 am
It seems to me that the legality of sprints is a distraction from the original question. Let's avoid an argument please.

thanx,

sal
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Re: Sprints

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm

gull wing wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 am
Does Spyderco exist for users or collectors?
It seems obvious that Spyderco tries to make something for everybody. :)
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sprints

Postby blues » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:06 pm
blues wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:02 pm
jdw wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:41 am
Regardless of whether it's legal or not, this all sounds like a tremendous waste of law enforcement's time over a few people missing out on a pocket knife.
It wouldn't meet the threshold for investigation (or prosecution) in my experience, even if it met the underlying statutory requirements.

Yeah, true, more than likely from what was told by law enforcement in general. "If they don't wrap everything up in a neat little bow for the FBI they won't even look at it."

That was an exact quote from local law enforcement.
Well, Jim, my twenty plus years in federal law enforcement, (my FBI prejudices apart), says otherwise. Complex investigations are not a rarity. In many cases it's our bread and butter. It's easy to be cynical, I know I am, but I can speak from experience. And it goes well beyond the individual agent. If the matter doesn't rise to the level of prosecutorial merit by the U.S. Attorney's Office, it ain't gonna get off the ground.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:14 pm

blues wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:06 pm
blues wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:02 pm
jdw wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:41 am
Regardless of whether it's legal or not, this all sounds like a tremendous waste of law enforcement's time over a few people missing out on a pocket knife.
It wouldn't meet the threshold for investigation (or prosecution) in my experience, even if it met the underlying statutory requirements.

Yeah, true, more than likely from what was told by law enforcement in general. "If they don't wrap everything up in a neat little bow for the FBI they won't even look at it."

That was an exact quote from local law enforcement.
Well, Jim, my twenty plus years in federal law enforcement, (my FBI prejudices apart), says otherwise. Complex investigations are not a rarity. In many cases it's our bread and butter. It's easy to be cynical, I know I am, but I can speak from experience. And it goes well beyond the individual agent. If the matter doesn't rise to the level of prosecutorial merit by the U.S. Attorney's Office, it ain't gonna get off the ground.

That sounds more like politics to me though, rather than law enforcement. :)

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Re: Sprints

Postby Woodpuppy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:14 pm

Jeepers. Bout time to lock this thread...

Never mistake legality for morality. Never invite more government control into your life. They are not so easily disinvited. “There oughtta be a law” indeed. Beware those eager to use government force to bend you to their will. There is no end to the lengths they will go to further their own goals.

I like the idea to sell preorders via the dealers and build numbers accordingly. The collectors may bemoan a lowered value, and I couldn’t care less. Doubling the value of your investment the moment a sprint run is sold out isn’t collecting, it’s profiteering. Collections don’t mature in value until many years after production ends, or years after companies are gone. Investment collecting isn’t a sure thing. Collecting a thing you love is different.

I don’t want serial numbers, “1 of XXX” or other extraneous engravings on my knives. I do like makers marks. I won’t buy them at MSRP from SFO.

The system isn’t perfect; none are. But the production numbers could be tweaked. I think Spyderco is capable of making a pretty educated guess about what sprints will sell. Good risks get more production, poor risks get lower production.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:21 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:14 pm
Jeepers. Bout time to lock this thread...

Never mistake legality for morality. Never invite more government control into your life. They are not so easily disinvited. “There oughtta be a law” indeed. Beware those eager to use government force to bend you to their will. There is no end to the lengths they will go to further their own goals.

I like the idea to sell preorders via the dealers and build numbers accordingly. The collectors may bemoan a lowered value, and I couldn’t care less. Doubling the value of your investment the moment a sprint run is sold out isn’t collecting, it’s profiteering. Collections don’t mature in value until many years after production ends, or years after companies are gone. Investment collecting isn’t a sure thing. Collecting a thing you love is different.

I don’t want serial numbers, “1 of XXX” or other extraneous engravings on my knives. I do like makers marks. I won’t buy them at MSRP from SFO.

The system isn’t perfect; none are. But the production numbers could be tweaked. I think Spyderco is capable of making a pretty educated guess about what sprints will sell. Good risks get more production, poor risks get lower production.


Not to mention if someone buys one at a crazy price the likelihood of them ever getting even most of their money back is slim to none if they have to sell it down the road.

That is something I personally think about before buying them... It's always in the back of my mind just incase.

That goes for any hobby I have or had over the years though. If I have to turn it into cash later on...

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Re: Sprints

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:35 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:27 pm
With virtually every single Sprint Run of the past year selling out in about 3.8 seconds, I also think it would make sense for Spyderco to increase Sprint numbers.
Well said!
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Re: Sprints

Postby sal » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:37 pm

Hi Antnap,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

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Re: Sprints

Postby Freediver » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:38 pm

I have found that I have spent a lot of time over the last few years constantly checking Bladeforums and Spyderco forums for sprint Spydercos or SFO GECs that I was afraid to miss out on. It honestly becomes addicting and I’m trying to actively avoid doing it and just let sprints and SFOs be. Lately Iv’e been asking myself “do I really need that?”. I’ve also learned to not care if I miss out on one, because a new/better one will probably be announced next week anyways.

The worst part is if I land a sprint I’m afraid to carry it or use it because it can’t be replaced. I honestly don’t know what the answer is. Maybe if Spyderco did increase the number for suspected popular sprint runs (anything PM2 obviously), it will help reduce that initial panic/fear of missing out and scramble that ensues. Another option is to open a custom shop already, but that will effectively kill off the value of a lot of these sprints.

Anyways, I appreciate what Spyderco does for us and the fact they give us so many options, and I know it is impossible to please everyone.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:46 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:10 am
I think a possible solution here is to make a system like the collector's club for forum members where pre-orders are literally pre-sales where sprints are paid for up front and then production is based on the total number of pre-sales plus maybe a bit more to cover any possible warranty/replacement issues. Make the pre-sale open for X amount of time so everyone who wants one can get in on it.

Personally I'm not into the idea of serial numbers and I wouldn't even want a collector's club number. It's also up for debate whether this sort of random number production will work for Spyderco and their makers, there likely needs to be some kind of limit on sprint production numbers due to steel availability and such.

This wouldn't prevent people from selling their knives at inflated prices after the pre-sale ends, but I think we'd all feel more comfortable knowing that people had a fair and open chance to sign up to get one if they wanted to, as opposed to everyone jumping on a website all at once rushing to get one only to miss out. If a pre-sale was announced and open for say one week and then closed then whoever missed out just wasn't staying in the loop and needs to participate in the forum more often.

The potential issue with this is that there are a lot more forum members than the typical 1200 piece sprint run. There are 25866 registered members on the forum, even though most of those probably aren't regular members there is definitely potential for sprint runs turning into much larger batches of knives.
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Re: Sprints

Postby The Deacon » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:50 pm

gull wing wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 am
Does Spyderco exist for users or collectors?

I would say that Spyderco exists for its customers. Sal may prefer his knives to be used but, at the end of the day, a sale is a sale and sales are what keep any company in business so any sale, whether to a user or collector, is of equal value to Spyderco's continued existence.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Haunted House » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:53 pm

I like the idea of taking pre-orders for a few weeks and then making the amount ordered (plus a few extra).
This could work for sprints + dealer exclusives.

I think it’s worth noting that there’s a difference between sprint runs and dealer exclusives, and they seemed to be interchanged in this thread.
In the case of dealer exclusives- it’s the dealer’s call on how many they make, and they likely have to pay upfront.
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Re: Sprints

Postby The Deacon » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:03 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:10 am
I think a possible solution here is to make a system like the collector's club for forum members where pre-orders are literally pre-sales where sprints are paid for up front and then production is based on the total number of pre-sales plus maybe a bit more to cover any possible warranty/replacement issues. Make the pre-sale open for X amount of time so everyone who wants one can get in on it.

Personally I'm not into the idea of serial numbers and I wouldn't even want a collector's club number. It's also up for debate whether this sort of random number production will work for Spyderco and their makers, there likely needs to be some kind of limit on sprint production numbers due to steel availability and such.

This wouldn't prevent people from selling their knives at inflated prices after the pre-sale ends, but I think we'd all feel more comfortable knowing that people had a fair and open chance to sign up to get one if they wanted to, as opposed to everyone jumping on a website all at once rushing to get one only to miss out. If a pre-sale was announced and open for say one week and then closed then whoever missed out just wasn't staying in the loop and needs to participate in the forum more often.

The potential issue with this is that there are a lot more forum members than the typical 1200 piece sprint run. There are 25866 registered members on the forum, even though most of those probably aren't regular members there is definitely potential for sprint runs turning into much larger batches of knives.

Well, anyone seriously interested in getting Sprints can join the Collector's Club at the silver level, then sell off any Main pieces and Sprints they did not wish to keep.

And, as you noted, the problem I see with your suggestion is that Sprint quantities are sometimes based on maker's run size requirements and sometimes on steel suppliers "lot" sizes. So if Spyderco gets slightly more pre-orders for a knife than a run size or lot slze, they're going to risk get stuck with a lot of excess.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:14 pm

Part of the original question was how we feel about Sprints.

My feelings towards how they have been marketed in the past year are so very negative to the point where I started not buying rather than continue to support a way of selling that my feelings abhor for many reasons.

As for how I feel... about the ones I did buy I feel they are a fantastic value for the money and love how well they work but do not enjoy them because of the fight to obtain them and it makes a hobby something which is supposed to be fun, not fun at all. The hassle to obtain them was stressful. I do not need anymore stress in my life, thank you very much. I do not like it.

This also causes a conflict in my emotions ... Feelings... that I prefer to avoid. So I have settled in with the idea that it is not healthy for me to want and desire any one thing that is so difficult to obtain and can end in disappointment.

I would rather not make an appointment to buy from a website that is malfunctioning due to so much frenzied activity because they have short supply than suffer disappointment, I would rather not obtain yet another thing I really do not need than read about others unhappiness. I feel it is unnecessary greed and prefer not to be ruled by that.

I feel.... there is really only one solution to the sprint issue and it has already been touched upon and that is that Spyderco takes charge and says look you have to commit to X amount not 600 not 1200 but a higher amount or we will not produce them.

If this does not make the supply chain happy then to heck with them, sell direct, no one needs middle men anymore with the internet it is a hold over from when all their was, was brick an mortar stores.

So that sums up how I feel about Sprints and you might as well toss exclusives in that bag as well.

Logically however I realize that Spyderco already knows all this and Sal has not remained in business all these years by not knowing everything I have already written and I have faith he is doing the best he can with the situation and knows his business far better than I do.

Logically I know that if their is something so unique that I really want I will try to buy it.

Emotionally I am very thankful the last reveal has very little I am interested in so I am not tempted to cause myself internal conflicts by buying yet another thing I neither need nor truly enjoy due to ugly circumstances of making the purchase. For goodness sake I feel like I am being victimized by the merchant and I do not like that.

I am the one with the money to spend, and it spends equally well everywhere, so I feel like it is time to shift tastes.
Last edited by Doeswhateveraspidercan on Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sprints

Postby blues » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:30 pm

Well, Jim, you may think it's politics and that's your right. Some things are. Mostly it's a practical application of resources and manpower, with the most serious crimes getting the most focus.

You seem to have your mind made up so I'll not waste either one of our time expounding further.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Tucson Tom » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:58 pm

yablanowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:35 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 am
No more sprints would solve all the problems! :eek:
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a Winner!
Wait, what, hold on a minute?

I am surprised that anyone is suggesting no more sprints. Sprints are great. The only problem is when you want one and can't get one. The best solution to this is to just man up and face the fact that you just don't get everyone you want in life. This whole thread started with the simple suggestion that the demand for Sprints has increased and Spyderco could consider making them in bigger runs. That sounds good to me, but there is a definite risk on Spydercos end.

Then this thread erupted into a bunch of accusations that distributors were doing bad things, that serial numbers could be used to track these bad things, and the usual complaining about flippers and inflated prices on the secondary market. This is something that I am only mildly annoyed by and can easily ignore. If I want to get worked up about something, there are bigger fish to fry in this world.

I was surprised and amused that people are concerned about the "loss of value" if sprints became less rare. There is a contradiction here -- you can't complain on one hand about inflated prices on the secondary market and loss of value at the same time. Unless you are a flipper yourself. But I think most people who would make this complaint are people with ideas about the value of their "collection" and with absolutely no idea of selling any of their knives. As soon as they start selling at inflated prices don't they then become a despicable flipper?

So, I say bravo for sprint runs and I hope it is worth it to Spyderco to bump the numbers up a notch. Simply because I want some of these great Sprints.


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