Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

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JaseRicco
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Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby JaseRicco » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:05 pm

I just received my Delica 4 Damascus KnifeJoy Exclusive. Absolutely stunning knife, but that's for another thread.

I sent a pic to my buddy, as I tend to do when I receive a new knife, because he is also into knives, and the conversation went as follows;

Buddy: Damascus?!
Naaaaaah...

Me: Ya, it's an exclusive they did for/with one of their vendors.

Buddy: It's real Damascus??
Had to be big money

I understand, at least at a high level, how Spyderco Damascus is made, VG-10 core, sandwiched between two layers of Damascus Steel, yada yada.

And I believe I understand that there are different types, or levels of Damascus, maybe?

As you can see, I am not well versed in the making of Damascus at all, so I'm posing his question to the experts...is this "real" Damascus and is there a such thing as "fake" Damascus??

Learn me something new please, in layman's terms if you can lol :D

Thanks you!
Jase

Current:
Para 3 LWT & Delica 4 Damascus KnifeJoy Exclusive

On The Hunt For:
Delica 4 Sprints & Exclusives (Background here...viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85708)

Sold:
Delica 4 Wharncliffe, Delica 4 Wharncliffe S30V Cutlery Shoppe Exclusive, Lil Matriarch Bento Box Shop Exclusive

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JaseRicco
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby JaseRicco » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:40 pm

Answered my own question already. When he asked if it was fake, he meant a blade that was simply etched or painted with a pattern. In this case I informed him that the blade is real Damascus.

However, feel free to learn me anyway if you're feeling froggy.
Jase

Current:
Para 3 LWT & Delica 4 Damascus KnifeJoy Exclusive

On The Hunt For:
Delica 4 Sprints & Exclusives (Background here...viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85708)

Sold:
Delica 4 Wharncliffe, Delica 4 Wharncliffe S30V Cutlery Shoppe Exclusive, Lil Matriarch Bento Box Shop Exclusive

FK
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby FK » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 pm

I believe the Endura Damascus is made with a center core of VG10 with two layers of additional laminated Damascus on either side. This is done in a cold rolling mill process called cladding. The last process after blade grinding, is to acid etch which will emphasize the different layers of steel alloy in the laminations.
A traditional hot forged or hammered Damascus would be too expensive for mass production.
It is very attractive and commonly used for Japanese kitchen knives with that style of blade and lower price point.

Regards,
FK

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JaseRicco
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby JaseRicco » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:03 pm

FK wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 pm
I believe the Endura Damascus is made with a center core of VG10 with two layers of additional laminated Damascus on either side. This is done in a cold rolling mill process called cladding. The last process after blade grinding, is to acid etch which will emphasize the different layers of steel alloy in the laminations.
A traditional hot forged or hammered Damascus would be too expensive for mass production.
It is very attractive and commonly used for Japanese kitchen knives with that style of blade and lower price point.

Regards,
FK

Right, of course.

So what I am reading is that there may be different levels of Damascus, or the making of Damascus, but folded or cladded, all Damascus nonetheless?
Jase

Current:
Para 3 LWT & Delica 4 Damascus KnifeJoy Exclusive

On The Hunt For:
Delica 4 Sprints & Exclusives (Background here...viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85708)

Sold:
Delica 4 Wharncliffe, Delica 4 Wharncliffe S30V Cutlery Shoppe Exclusive, Lil Matriarch Bento Box Shop Exclusive

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Wartstein
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:22 pm

As far as I am aware of the term "damascus steel" is not really "protected", so any steel that has a "damascus pattern" (perhaps even if it´s just painted...) could be called "damascus"..

As mentioned before and as far as I can see (but I might be wrong!): The Delica has "real" / folded Damascus layers laminated to a (VG10?) steel, which is fine, but of course what actually "cuts" will be still "just" plain VG10 and the Damascus-layers, though they consist of real, multiple times folded steel will be mostly just for optics.

On a "real" or better "traditional" damascus-knife, the WHOLE blade, so also the very edge will consist of Damascus, so the layers will go down to the very edge and THAT (folded) steel will be what actually cuts (such a knife can be seen on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP5GyAXwHXs&t=454s (german) vid at around 4:45)
Last edited by Wartstein on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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bbturbodad
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby bbturbodad » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Damasteel makes an extremely high quality (and extremely expensive) clad damascus. The core they use is N11X which I understand is their version of Vanax SC (licensed from Böhler-Uddeholm).

https://damasteel.se/damacore-dc18n/
-Turbo

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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:53 pm

I would call it real Damascus. If it has a pattern created by alternating layers of different metals then it is Damascus. It is common in Japanese kitchen knives to have a Damascus blade with a solid core so that is not a disqualifier in my book either. I personally don’t like the high contrast look but I would call it real.
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby cycleguy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:22 pm

Don't know the ins and outs of damascus, but, here is an interesting damascus video if you have the time ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbfi149Z170

Here is another

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThSGV66i_zY

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

phaust
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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby phaust » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:14 pm

A matter of semantics, but I wouldn't call the blade Damascus if it's only cladded in it. It's like saying those half cf half g10 handles are cf. The cladding is Damascus, the whole thing not. Just my .02

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Re: Is DPS 15 Damascus "Real" Damascus??

Postby JacksonKnives » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:57 am

It really is semantics, since pattern-welded blades don't have anything to do with Syria or medieval steel tech (cast, not folded) seen in that region and India.
Might as well call it "Viking Steel" or "Samurai Steel," since those guys carried pattern-welded swords.

But to the question of the Delica: the pattern is made with real alternating layers of steel. The core / edge layer is a high-quality steel with desirable properties. You would not benefit at all from the pattern continuing through the center, so for all intents and purposes the pattern-jacketed VG10 is superior.

Could you make it "better" for some specific purposes by using different steels? Sure. But that's not the question.


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