PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

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90grains
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PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby 90grains » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:53 am

Since I am a new (very happy) PM2 owner I want to understand the reason / thought process to deliver the knife with the clip tip down for carry. I don't have enough time with the knife to have a preference. Tip down seems to make sense given the design. My other knives are all tip up.

With the excellent design and quality there has to be a reason they are delivered for tip down carry. It isn't an accident. But what is it?

Michael Janich
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby Michael Janich » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:46 am

The designer's preference... That's Spyderco's policy for default clip placement.

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JuPaul
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby JuPaul » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:43 am

When I first got a pm2, I immediately switched the clip to my usual tip up preference. But after learning that the designer preferred it tip down, I decided to give that a shot. I quickly realized the ergos feel better (for me) with the clip in that position, and it's actually easier for me to deploy the knife from that position, although it took a few days to adjust my muscle memory. Now I leave them as they come.
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sal
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby sal » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:18 am

Hi 90grains,

The original design was tip down.

In the early days, tip down was on all knives. There are advantages to both positions.

sal

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bearrowland
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby bearrowland » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:37 am

I like how mine feels that way.
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby koenigsegg » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:36 pm

It has to be tradition. Why else would the PM3 be tip up?
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby bdblue » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:11 pm

Assuming right front pocket carry, there are advantages and disadvantages to both positions. Assuming carry in other pockets that may dictate position.

When knives first started having clips, they were almost universally tip down. When Spyderco started molding FRN handles those knives ended up tip up so the clip wouldn't interfere with the blade pivot.

I have my own preferences and reasons, but these days it seems that most people on forums prefer tip up for a variety of reasons. I have fairly long fingers but yet tip up is a hinderance to me for deploying larger knives and I've done a lot of testing of this. With smaller knives there is a lot less difference. However I own and regularly carry knives with clips in both positions and I get by ok. If I buy a new knife I leave the clip where it came.

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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby Wartstein » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm

koenigsegg wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:36 pm
It has to be tradition. Why else would the PM3 be tip up?
To be clear: I personally prefer tip UP on any knife I got in hands so far (so also on the PM2)

But to say that the PM2 comes in tip down configuration from the factory just cause of tradition, and the switch to tip up on the Para 3 would prove this, is a bit far fetched imho.

The Para 3 is a smaller knife, so your hand is close to the opening hole after drawing it from the tip up position.

But the longer a folder gets (PM2 vs Para 3...), the further away your hand is from the opening hole when drawing from a tip UP position.
So that can be an argument for tip down on the longer of two folders.

Aditionally, the (tip up configurated) clip hits your hand /palm in a different position when holding the deployed knife on a shorter vs a longer knife.
So the designer might decide, while on the one knife tip UP feels more comforttable in hand in that regard , on the other it's tip down..
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby koenigsegg » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:46 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm
koenigsegg wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:36 pm
It has to be tradition. Why else would the PM3 be tip up?
To be clear: I personally prefer tip UP on any knife I got in hands so far (so also on the PM2)

But to say that the PM2 comes in tip down configuration from the factory just cause of tradition, and the switch to tip up on the Para 3 would prove this, is a bit far fetched imho.

The Para 3 is a smaller knife, so your hand is close to the opening hole after drawing it from the tip up position.

But the longer a folder gets (PM2 vs Para 3...), the further away your hand is from the opening hole when drawing from a tip UP position.
So that can be an argument for tip down on the longer of two folders.

Aditionally, the (tip up configurated) clip hits your hand /palm in a different position when holding the deployed knife on a shorter vs a longer knife.
So the designer might decide, while on the one knife tip UP feels more comforttable in hand in that regard , on the other it's tip down..
Sal said it was the original design so same thing really but on the Pm3 tip down is better because it's deeper in your pocket without lanyard hole sticking out. I like tip up because the blade is away from my hand and the stuff in my pocket but to each their own. I wish it wasn't installed at all when I got it so I can choose
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Evil D
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby Evil D » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:56 am

koenigsegg wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:36 pm
It has to be tradition. Why else would the PM3 be tip up?


From what I've read over the years from Sal and others who prefer tip down, it comes down to the size of the knife. A larger folder like the Military means you need to reposition your grip after drawing to get to the thumb hole (if it were tip up) compared to tip down you just need to rotate the knife 180 degrees but your grip and thumb are right by the thumb hole. They don't seem to put any priority on people's opinions of whether one way is safer than the other.

Some people have said they have no problem sticking their thumb far enough into their pocket to draw the knife while being able to position their thumb close enough to the thumb hole to not need to shimmy their grip around to reach it. I have pretty big hands but for me this is just more awkward and fumbly than tip down is, but ultimately it comes down to the length of the handle. I can draw a Native 5 with my thumb literally on the thumb hole during the draw but I can't get anywhere near it if I carry my Ulize tip up.

I would guess that the Para 2 is a gray area in size and Sal/Eric feel it's better in tip down. For this size range I can live with either one, I have had to use my Autonomy in a borderline emergency situation and I had no problem drawing it and getting to the fire button, and it's more or less the same distance from the clip as a thumb hole would be. On the other hand I can draw a Military and in one motion drop/rotate the handle down into my hand and my thumb is right next to the hole, so tip down makes a lot of sense to me on that knife.
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:15 am

I would be happy if EVERY knife came tip down. :)
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby bdblue » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:21 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm
But the longer a folder gets (PM2 vs Para 3...), the further away your hand is from the opening hole when drawing from a tip UP position.
So that can be an argument for tip down on the longer of two folders.
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:56 am
From what I've read over the years from Sal and others who prefer tip down, it comes down to the size of the knife. A larger folder like the Military means you need to reposition your grip after drawing to get to the thumb hole (if it were tip up) compared to tip down you just need to rotate the knife 180 degrees but your grip and thumb are right by the thumb hole. They don't seem to put any priority on people's opinions of whether one way is safer than the other.

Some people have said they have no problem sticking their thumb far enough into their pocket to draw the knife while being able to position their thumb close enough to the thumb hole to not need to shimmy their grip around to reach it. I have pretty big hands but for me this is just more awkward and fumbly than tip down is, but ultimately it comes down to the length of the handle. I can draw a Native 5 with my thumb literally on the thumb hole during the draw but I can't get anywhere near it if I carry my Ulize tip up.

I would guess that the Para 2 is a gray area in size and Sal/Eric feel it's better in tip down.

The longer knives work better for me tip down, better meaning easier/faster/more secure to deploy. Not everybody cares about that, some people prefer the extra feeling of safety with tip up, the more comfort with the clip in a different place in their palm, the ability to use a lanyard. I can operate a big knife tip up, it just takes a little longer to deploy and in some situations tip up is more fiddly and there is more chance of dropping the knife. With a smaller knife, under 3" blade, the knives work equally well for me either way.

I have fairly long fingers and still have trouble tip up, but I usually wear fairly tight jeans. Other people wear different clothes, in a youtube video where someone was demonstrating quick deployment tip up they were wearing pajamas! Pajamas would be much different from tight jeans.

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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby Bloke » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:31 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:15 am
I would be happy if EVERY knife came tip down. :)
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Re: PM2 Tip Down - Standard Configuration

Postby Bloke » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:50 pm

bdblue wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:21 pm
I usually wear fairly tight jeans.
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