Production LC200N

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Wartstein
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Re: Production LC200N

Postby Wartstein » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm

pantagana23 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:28 am
ctrikard wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:47 am
I took the liberty of checking prices of steels on AKS and Admiral steel, and have the following info on pricing (took your wish, and a couple of steels I would like to see more).
All prices are per cubic inch (could not compare otherwise, as they are sold in different dimensions).

Prices from least to most expensive:

S35VN 10.33 $/in3
S30V 10.64 $/in3
LC200N 16.03 $/in3
M390 25.74 $/in3
Vanax 36.30 $/in3

IMO there's more financial logic to switch to S35VN, which is an upgraded S30V, and is cheaper than S30V (not sure how is this possible though).

And now look at Vanax :D

Not an expert at all, so I just repeat what I read several times (and have no idea if it's actually true or not):

There are those who say S35VN is an "upgrade" over S30V only for the knife-maker, cause it's easier to work with, but really not for the knife user... what do you think?
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The Deacon
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Re: Production LC200N

Postby The Deacon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:51 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm
Not an expert at all, so I just repeat what I read several times (and have no idea if it's actually true or not):

There are those who say S35VN is an "upgrade" over S30V only for the knife-maker, cause it's easier to work with, but really not for the knife user... what do you think?

Haven't used either enough to have a valid opinion on how S30V and S35VN compare, but I'm pretty sure Sal was among those who said that S35VN's primary benefit is that it's easier for knifemakers who have limited or no experience with S30V to work with and heat treat properly.
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pantagana23
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Re: Production LC200N

Postby pantagana23 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:17 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm
Not an expert at all, so I just repeat what I read several times (and have no idea if it's actually true or not):

There are those who say S35VN is an "upgrade" over S30V only for the knife-maker, cause it's easier to work with, but really not for the knife user... what do you think?
Do I look like an expert? :D :D :D
I just go with the thought that S35VN is commonly found in higher end knives.

LC200N doesn't seem that much more expensive, but theoretically, if Spyderco would change to this, all the prices go up.

Not sure how LC200N compares to H1 in steel price, as change for plain edge salt knives to LC would make more logic.

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Cambertree
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Re: Production LC200N

Postby Cambertree » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:58 am

Xplorer wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 am
Hi Cambertree,

I've spent quite a lot of time working with LC200N (both for Lance's Siren project, as well as my own projects).

The hardness of LC200N seems to be capped at about 61. The production LC200N we see is generally HRC58/59. As we've all seen it performs quite well at 58/59. I've done a lot of work specifically to create a custom heat treat protocol that achieves a higher hardness and I can tell you that the extra time, cost and effort to get LC above 59 is simply more than we can ever expect a production company to do.

I have tested a bunch of LC200N blades at HRC 60.5 and just a couple of weeks ago my friend Shawn (deadboxhero) achieved 61. All of my testing has shown that LC200N performs noticeably better at that slightly higher hardness. It demonstrated better edge holding in the form of increased wear resistance. There is no chipping or any other adverse effects and edge retention is improved.

So, while it can get a little better than we currently see in production..only a little better...it's not likely to happen in production because of time and cost.

Best regards,
CK
Hi Chad,

Thanks very much for sharing the results of your testing and research, that's very interesting.

I guess the toughness of LC200N is still pretty good at that 60-61 range, considering the relatively low carbide/nitride content.

Do you grind LC200N in your customs fairly thin behind the edge?

It's good to know that Spyderco have probably hit a good balance point as far as production heat treats go for LC200N. Most of Spyderco's heat treats seem to set the benchmark standard for production knives.

It's common for people to request harder HTs, but I wonder if they are aware that there's a point of steadily diminishing returns, where a negligible hardness increase may result in a larger loss of corrosion resistance and/or toughness.

I guess LC200N would make a pretty nice custom kitchen knife as well.

Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to trying out the Siren.


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