Production LC200N

[ctrikard]

This may have already been discussed. But I dont have time to look through all the posts so here we go.

For many years spyderco made different models in the SALT series of knives. For people who needed a rust proof knife. We all know this. Unfortunately for many years steels were usually a trade between corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. You could buy a salt knife in H1 and never have to worry about it rusting but it wouldnt hold an edge very well at all.

Now that LC200N has been discovered and made into stock sizes perfect for producing knife blades where should spyderco go with this? Considering LC200N basically solves the decades long problem of the holy trinity of steel properties should spyderco simply get rid of the salt line of knives and move to make lc200n the new standard production steel for all their higher end models. I cant really see a valid reason not to do this. If the availability of the steel is there and the cost is similar than why not just start making everything in it?

What does everyone think of replacing s30v with lc200n?

[Evil D]

There is still quite a lot of support for H1, particularly in serrated form. Toughness between the two still seems to be debated too. I have mentioned in other threads that I would be completely ok with LC replacing S30V as the standard production steel even if the rest of the knife wasn't a full Salt model.

I have an ongoing thread about some hard use testing on a SE Caribbean that has shown me enough to trust LC's toughness to a point where I feel that debating it against H1 is a moot point because it's plenty tough enough for folder use. There is likely a point where H1 is tougher but to reach that point you're doing stupid things with your knife.

Anyway back to your question, they're already making more and more models in LC but it doesn't seem like it'll be totally replacing H1 just yet. Apparently the upcoming Pacific Salt 2 will still be in H1, though there is a lot of interest in a FFG/LC version so if nothing else maybe we can hope for a sprint or variant in LC.

[Dazen]

I’d be fine with that, but the salt line is more than just the blade. They would have to rustproof the hardware on all the models, because someone would think they can use it like a true salt. This would in the end drive up the cost of all S30V models. Again, I don’t mind paying the up charge, but I feel many wouldn’t. There would also be a large group of people outside of this knife community that really wouldn’t understand what they have or what they are paying for.

[Wartstein]

To be clear: I have no personal experience with either LC200N or plain edge in H1.

But in the rather short time I have had it till now, I have used my serrated Pac Salt a lot and really did beat on it like on maybe no other folder so far.

And in my experience serrated H1 is all that great as they always said (and I initially was prepared to NOT fully believe that!) - concerning toughness, edge holding and sharpenability... it should never be replaced as far as I am concerned! (Though, as said: I can´t speak for LC200N - serrated or not - from personal experience)

[JRinFL]

Despite living in a State mostly surrounded by salt water and fully submerged in humidity, I have never found rust on my s30v blades. So, based on that I would not need or want LC200n on every blade. I’d rather have better edge retention over extreme rust resistance. If there were a steel change, I’d rather it be to s35vn or the newest S**v steel Sal mention a while back. Just my two cents.

[JRinFL]

To be clear: I have no personal experience with either LC200N or plain edge in H1.

But in the rather short time I have had it till now, I have used my serrated Pac Salt a lot and really did beat on it like on maybe no other folder so far.

And in my experience serrated H1 is all that great as they always said (and I initially was prepared to NOT fully believe that!) - concerning toughness, edge holding and sharpenability... it should never be replaced as far as I am concerned! (Though, as said: I can´t speak for LC200N - serrated or not - from personal experience)

I must be odd man out. My 4 H1 SE blades have disappointed me with lack luster edge holding. Closer to Aus6 performance-wise in my use, except for rust resistance, of course.

[Wartstein]

To be clear: I have no personal experience with either LC200N or plain edge in H1.

But in the rather short time I have had it till now, I have used my serrated Pac Salt a lot and really did beat on it like on maybe no other folder so far.

And in my experience serrated H1 is all that great as they always said (and I initially was prepared to NOT fully believe that!) - concerning toughness, edge holding and sharpenability... it should never be replaced as far as I am concerned! (Though, as said: I can´t speak for LC200N - serrated or not - from personal experience)

I must be odd man out. My 4 H1 SE blades have disappointed me with lack luster edge holding. Closer to Aus6 performance-wise in my use, except for rust resistance, of course.

That´s weird... As said, BEFORE I had a Salt SE myself, I could not really comprehend how a genuinly soft steel should get good at edge holding by just that "work hardening thing". I was totally prepared to be disappointed.. But then totally convinced otherwise, solely through practical experience...

[VooDooChild]

The salt series is what got me into spyderco and once I realised that these salt knives really could hold up to what really no other knives could I was hooked. I live and work on the beach. But even I dont jump on the salt everything train. There is a hardware issue. There is also a more general discussion that some knives based on there design wont translate well into salt series use.

I have most of the salt series knives. I stick to a pretty simple rule, get h1 in serrated. Lc200n is fine in se or pe but I get my lc200n in plain edge just because I already have so much se h1 laying around. Also when comparing specs on lc200n and h1 people overlook price. H1 consistently runs cheaper than lc200n offerings for folders. Although there are alot of reasons for that.

Part of why I dont support the lets just switch to lc200n argument is I dont think its quite the godsend others say it is. Ive been using it since the mules. (Never could justify a tusk). Its pretty amazing in every aspect but edge holding is still vg10 level in my experience, but at a higher price than vg10 offerings. I dont agree with some hinting its almost on s30v level, maybe thay have magic sharpening equipment. There can be contamination corrosion issues. It pops up every once in a while. Its still essentially rustproof but it can happen.

Se h1 also isnt magic. But it is pretty darn good. If you are terrible like me, then se blades are something you let get dull anyway and just ignore because its still a working saw. I dont care if the scallop doesnt push cut paper, it will still rip through anything.

[James Y]

I have an ongoing thread about some hard use testing on a SE Caribbean that has shown me enough to trust LC's toughness to a point where I feel that debating it against H1 is a moot point because it's plenty tough enough for folder use. There is likely a point where H1 is tougher but to reach that point you're doing stupid things with your knife.

I remember that thread, and felt impressed by what you posted. Yet I've still seen others post that between H1 and LC200N, H1 is superior in SE, and LC is only better in PE. My impression from your thread was that SE LC was at least comparable to SE H1. I could be wrong, but those were the impressions I took away from that.

The only LC blade I have is my PE Caribbean, and I like it a lot. At this point, I could even call it the closest to the ideal blade steel (for me) that I've ever experienced. I would definitely like to see LC on more Spyderco knives.

Jim

[curlyhairedboy]

I'd say there's still a clear difference in edge retention between s30v and Lc200n.

[Haunted House]

I actually logged in this morning to ask if there’s any plans to make a Salt 2 in LC200N, or if one already exists.

The only LC200N Salt I can find is the Native 5 salt. It’ll probably be the next knife I buy, but I really want the Salt 2 Wharncliffe SE In LC200N.

[Pancake]

I'd say there's still a clear difference in edge retention between s30v and Lc200n.

In a favour for which one? Not trolling, just asking. I have knives in both steels, but can't really compare them, because I sharpen often.

[sal]

Hi CtriKard,

Actually LC200N came first. It is/was called Cronidur 30. There's a story behind that as well. I believe it was about 1998.

lC, being martinsitic is more prone to galvanic corrosion. We're doing a lot of experimenting with the material. We'll probably add LC to some of the Salt models in the future.

sal

[curlyhairedboy]

I'd say there's still a clear difference in edge retention between s30v and Lc200n.

In a favour for which one? Not trolling, just asking. I have knives in both steels, but can't really compare them, because I sharpen often.

I don't have a bunch of use to compare, but I seem to remember Lance saying that plain edge s30v still holds an edge longer than plain edge Lc200n.

[Haunted House]

I have an ongoing thread about some hard use testing on a SE Caribbean that has shown me enough to trust LC's toughness to a point where I feel that debating it against H1 is a moot point because it's plenty tough enough for folder use. There is likely a point where H1 is tougher but to reach that point you're doing stupid things with your knife.

I remember that thread, and felt impressed by what you posted. Yet I've still seen others post that between H1 and LC200N, H1 is superior in SE, and LC is only better in PE. My impression from your thread was that SE LC was at least comparable to SE H1. I could be wrong, but those were the impressions I took away from that.

Jim

Could you please share a link to where people have tested SE LC200N vs SE H1?
I can’t find any testing with the serrated versions being tested head to head.
I’ve found multiple posts & threads asking the question, but no one who’s actually tested them.

[jalcon]

LC200N PM2


Pleeeeeease

[Evil D]

Could you please share a link to where people have tested SE LC200N vs SE H1?
I can’t find any testing with the serrated versions being tested head to head.
I’ve found multiple posts & threads asking the question, but no one who’s actually tested them.
Top
jalcon

Not so much a head to head since I don't have an H1 knife that's close enough to compare it to but it does have at least one hard cutting task that was done with both steels and the damage was comparable.

viewtopic.php?t=85045#p1366199

[Enactive]

One of the tricky bits with testing serrated knives is controlling for geometry. There is a broad range of geometry among SE grinds.

The chisel grind of SE, often gives them a narrower edge grind than a similar PE with V grind. Of course the scallops themselves and blade shape/ geometry etc are huge variables. IIRC Sal has shared something about most steels have a 2:1 ratio SE:PE in the CATRA testing, but H1 has about 4:1.

I still don't have any H1 (yet), thought love my LC200N in the Native and Chef and aim to get an SE Native Salt sooner than later. It holds up great for all my wetter uses and it sharpens brilliantly. It isn't as strong as Cruwear, but that's why i have those knives.

Thanks Sal (and family and Co.) for all the great steels! I am getting antsy for a K390 Stretch 2 with a drop point! :spyder: :cool:

[TomAiello]

What does everyone think of replacing s30v with lc200n?

Definitely against that. s30v and lc200n fill different niches for me. I prefer s30v for EDC, as it holds an edge better than s30v for me.

[The Deacon]

To me, the biggest advantage LC200N has over H-1 is that it can be full flat ground in a production knife. I'm really enjoying my Autonomy 2 and I'd love to see a PE FFG Autonomy 1. :) It may never happen, but LC200N at least makes it possible.