Design details that are deal breakers

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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standy99
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby standy99 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:28 am

Flippers..I don’t like them, don’t need them, would never need to flip a knife open.

Just a thing because I’m more old and grumpy nowadays I suppose :D
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:07 am

The giant right angle of exposed steel on the Shaman while it's closed. I can't stand that!

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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby benben » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:51 am

Excessive jimping on the Manix handle........but that's been beat to death before.

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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby TkoK83Spy » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 am

I must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.

I agree with David about when NOT utilizing the choil on knives that have them, the grip feels a bit awkward and very distant. I've tried using my Shaman's/Manix's without using the choil and it feels very awkward and not very controlled.
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Evil D
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Evil D » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:55 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 am
I must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.

I agree with David about when NOT utilizing the choil on knives that have them, the grip feels a bit awkward and very distant. I've tried using my Shaman's/Manix's without using the choil and it feels very awkward and not very controlled.


What I'm trying to say is less that I don't like the choil, and more that I'd prefer the grip were more like a Lil Temp 3 where there's no need for it in the first place.
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Wartstein
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:57 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 am
I must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.

Actually in my personal experience a finger choil works best in real use, when it is not TOO deep... though deep choils feel better when just holding the knife, when really using it the control over it is better when a choil is a bit shallower and by that the index finger not TOO deeply recessed compared to the other fingers.

So just in my use for example the shallower choil of the Stretch 1 gives me more control than the deeper choil of the Stretch 2, or the Ricasso of the Endura (when choking up on it) more than the deep Native choil...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Hopweaver
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Hopweaver » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:58 am

My absolute deal breaker: Nonstainless steel blades. I do a lot of food prep with my pocket knives and they need to have corrosion resistance.
:spyder: Make time for the important things in life, and learn to enjoy the little things more. :spyder:

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:05 am

I'm generally not real picky but there's a few that I've seen mentioned that I tend to shy away from.

-Recurves - I do have one. I bought a Hanan on sale because I like the Southard designs. Haven't really carried it much because I still need to increase the detent. It looks like I'll be able to touch it up on the Sharpmaker and use my 1/2" wide stones to reprofile when (if) it ever comes time. I'm not likely to buy another recurved blade though.

-Edge being too far from grip area

-Wave feature - I have no real need for this and I think it ruins the aesthetics of the knife

-Tanto Blades - It may be good for some things but not for me thanks.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Larry_Mott » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:07 am

I can't really think of a dealbreaker detail/feature (or lack thereof) I don't love the Bradley's partly obscured hole.. The Techno's annoyng corner of the scales etc.
There are whole knives i wouldn't accept as a gift, but that is more aesthetics than feature based. :)
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Spydergirl88
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:35 am

Dealbreakers:
Sharpening choil
End of the handle being pointy/sharp
Recurves and trailing points
Unique clips
Seki/Moki g10 costs
Point of blade proud of handle when closed
Team Wire Clip
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby GarageBoy » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:15 am

I'm also one that's not a fan of grips that are far from start of the edge - it's weird using a police or military from the non choil grip

Hooks at the butt end of knives occasionally bother me. I want to love the pingo so badly, and I'll put up with it, but the hook forces my hand too far forward

I think the smock edge is cut out like that so the edge doesn't make its way to the compression lock cut out

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DSH007
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby DSH007 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:29 am

Idk that there are really any "dealbreakers" for me when it comes to Spyderco knives with regard to design language.. I have my preferences yes, but generally, I'm willing to give any Spyderco a chance because when I handle them I can see and appreciate that each design feature was thoughtfully and intentionally executed.. I can't say this about some other knife companies' products..

Deal-breakers for me are almost always aesthetic.. I like simple.. any type of unnecessary, excessive or decorative patterning/milling/embellishment is a no-go for me. Crazy colors.. probably not for me. Those awful rainbow-pattern aftermarket pocket clips.. for the love of God, why?! Knives with tons of holes in them *cough,ATR,cough*.. yeah yeah, weight saving blah blah.. haha, they just look so ugly to me. And worst of all.. any fantasy style knife that can be confused for a dragon's claw or wizard's sword.. just.. no. Fortunately, these types of aesthetic trappings don't apply to a large majority of Spyderco's lineup..
Rick H.

..well, that escalated quickly..

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bigboned
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby bigboned » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:55 am

this is a really interesting thread, i hadnt really thought about alot of the points raised, probably as i subconciously 'reject' some designs as not for me but not thinking about the why
i tend to use folders for more detail 'small' work - i always use a fixed blade for heavy duty so my folders are small enough that i naturally choke up, i think i have average sized hands where around 3-4" handle works for me - para3 / delica etc and i dont feel forced into position by the grooves etc
i like thumb ramps and include the jimping on the dragonfly although im feeling that the handle might be just a bit too small so thinking of the urban or ukpk to try next

agree with the sharpening choil issue - i understand the need for them for sharpening but agree they cause hangups so they are out for me
love of the deep carry wireclip has caused me to hate the standard - again i dont own long folders - have moddied my para3 to have wireclip - a lynch etc just isnt the same to me
Andy

Me - Para3 in Cruwear, Junction, Bow River
Son - Dragonfly2 in VToku2
Wife - Urban in K390

Want to try - UKPK, Delica DLC CE, Bradley Bowie, Bushcraft
Gone - Delica ZDP189, PM2 Cruwear, Para3 LW BD1N, Para3 S30V

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kennethsime
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby kennethsime » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am

I love a good choil. In fact, I'm so hesitant to buy a knife without a choil that I've never owned a Delica. I'm waiting for the day they come out with a Spyderco Meadowlark, because I like that design better but I want VG-10 or better.

I really don't like the "blurple" handle color. Maybe this isn't so big of a deal because we can dye it black, but the whole S110V line doesn't really appeal to me.

I can't stand liner locks. There are so many better designs out there, like the compression lock, that I just won't buy a liner lock anymore. I don't even really like RIL/frame locks anymore.

I really want all of my knives to be FFG at this point. The Dragonfly is the exception, but even that is almost FFG.

Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
C90GRE Stretch 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open
C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V
C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green
C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green
C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta

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Evil D
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Evil D » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.

I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Ankerson
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Ankerson » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.

I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.

Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D

I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)

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Evil D
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Evil D » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 am

Ankerson wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.

I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.

Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D

I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)

Probably not but at that price point it's harder for me to compromise.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Ankerson
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby Ankerson » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:46 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 am
Ankerson wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.

I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.

Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D

I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)

Probably not but at that price point it's harder for me to compromise.

Different strokes....

I open my Spyderco's the same way as I do my CRK's so it doesn't make any difference to me.

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kennethsime
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby kennethsime » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:54 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
Ditto, D. I love the classic Sebenza, but would love it a lot more with a 14mm round hole opening. :-) For my money, I think I'd rather have a Ti Millie.

I've seen the "spydiebenza" mods, but haven't had a chance to handle one. To my eye, it seems a bit cramped, like your thumb is going to have a hard time getting past the liner to access the round hole.
C90GRE Stretch 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open
C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V
C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green
C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green
C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta

carrot
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Re: Design details that are deal breakers

Postby carrot » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:03 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 am
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 am
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.

I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
Yeah, I think thumb studs are my second least favorite opening method. Most do them wrong. I think CRK does a good job, TRM too.

I'm still holding out hope that one day CRK will do a collab where Sal gets to handle the sharp end, with the machining and overall package at Reeve's shop. Maybe based on the 31 or the Umnum. I'd carry that often. I think Spyderco does much better blades.


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