ZDP-189 - Overrated or Super Steel?

[Larrin]

I did not have corrosion issues with ZDP and I found it to sharpen much easier than other stainless steels with similar levels of edge holding. I can't recall a steel I've sharpened that's produced such minimal burring.

High hardness and brittle steels seem to do better for small burrs and easy removal.

[bearfacedkiller]

I try not to rate steels. That keeps me from overrating them. Not better, just different. :)

I have also heard that ZDP was meant to be sharpenable on common abrasives that struggle with high vanadium content. It is my understanding that Japanese culture values tradition and many folks there may still use simple steels and natural stones. ZDP offers a performance upgrade without requiring new stones like S110V might.

I like ZDP. It is tough enough and stainless enough for me and I find that with its high hardness it can be a pleasure to sharpen and use. I can get silly sharp edges on it and it seems to hold them well. I also agree about hard steels deburing easily. Maxamet burs break off if you stare at them hard enough.

[tonijedi]

Zdp-189 does take a fine edge, but it's not easy to sharpen. With the tools I have, it is a challenge to reprofile, it usually takes days or weeks with the time I have available. I wouldn't want to have it as the only steel in my collection, but it's fun and interesting as an option.

[sal]

We sure have had quite a few knife afi's thank us for making affordable models with ZDP-189.

sal

[Naperville]

We sure have had quite a few knife afi's thank us for making affordable models with ZDP-189.

sal

Yes, I agree, Spyderco keeps the lid on prices for rare knife steels!

[The Mastiff]

We sure have had quite a few knife afi's thank us for making affordable models with ZDP-189

I had used a Spyderco for more than a decade by the time the Caly jr. in ZDP came out at a cost low enough to get my attention. It was the first real "exotic" steel I ran across in a knife I felt comfortable in using. I had tried a few tool and high speed steels but nothing that had a really strange ( to me at that time it indeed seemed strange)composition .

Sal insured the steel was talked about in the magazines I and apparently plenty of others read and by the time I tried to place a pre order all the knives were accounted for. It was my first Spyderco "sprint war" . I had to work hard to find one and that insured I came around here much more often to make sure I didn't miss opportunities in the future.

The Caly jr.'s and red Jess Horn ZDP's were only selling for around $62 IIRC. Plenty affordable for a real user and not a knife that sat on a shelf.

For me they were notable because they began my daily website reads here that I still maintain as well as influencing me to move quickly if I even think I want a upcoming Spyderco sprint. That is another thing I maintain that all started with a release that was being written about with titles like something, something "Ferrari of steels" ( don't recall the rest of that title unfortunately nor which magazine it was in.

ZDP has also inspired some interesting discussions here on the forum like the one that goes " does ZDP even qualify as a steel or ...?"

Joe

[JD Spydo]

I've believed for a long time now that ZDP-189 would make a great blade steel for a plain edged, Recurve blade. That's something that Spyderco might want to check out. With the penetrating bite that steel has when it's razor sharp it has few steels that can equal that type of performance from my personal experiences with ZDP.

I've also thought that ZDP-189 would also be a good steel selection for some of the smaller Spyderco models like the Dragonfly for instance.

[awa54]

Thanks for the great work Larrin, it was an interesting read!

Before other "super" steels were available ZDP must have been a revelation, but I find it to have too many compromises (low toughness and corrosion resistance, without the reward of better sharpening response) to be a regular use steel for me.

[sal]

Hi Joe,

We always enjoy your input here and have for years.

sal

[5-by-5]

After reading this I'm kinda surprised that ZDP-189 was sold as stainless. My ZDP Dragonfly was one of the first Spyderco's I bought. And when researching them. I saw a lot of threads saying how you had to really take care of it to stop it corroding. In fact when I bought mine it had a thin coating of oil on it.
Personally I really like ZDP-189, but I could be biased because I really like my Dragonfly. I actually used my Dragonfly more then any other knife for a long time. When using the knife daily I found it never corroded. It wasn't until I left it in my winter jacket all this summer only to re-discover it this winter, that I found it had stained. But the stain polished out super easy!

IMHO If any steel is overrated it's S110V. The better edge retention isn't worth the sweat and tears to sharpen it, and it also has very poor toughness. ZDP-189 is a much more pleasant sharpening experience.

Oh yes, my S110V Para 3 sits in it's box today because of that.

I had a Native in S110V. I gave it away, even though I got custom scales. No matter what I did it always felt dull!

[5-by-5]

s90v is “easier” and I prefer it over s110v and zdp honestly.

I’ll take s30v or s90v any day over those and I’m not a huge fan of them. But I’ll use em, carry em and sharpen em all the same.

I think they’re all overrated though. s30v does just fine, as does vg10. If the heat treats right I don’t care.

VG10 is awesome. Nothing like chippy sXXv whatever.

[5-by-5]

We sure have had quite a few knife afi's thank us for making affordable models with ZDP-189.

sal

Yes, thank you. I'm a fan.

[prndltech]

s90v is “easier” and I prefer it over s110v and zdp honestly.

I’ll take s30v or s90v any day over those and I’m not a huge fan of them. But I’ll use em, carry em and sharpen em all the same.

I think they’re all overrated though. s30v does just fine, as does vg10. If the heat treats right I don’t care.

VG10 is awesome. Nothing like chippy sXXv whatever.

I only had one knife in sXXv anything was chippy. They key is to full sharpen them 3-5 times and get off all the “burnt” steel created by sharpening at the factory. Most people aren’t willing to wait long enough to get to the “good” steel. And I mean sharpen or “reprofile” Not microbevel the factory edge.

[The Mastiff]

Hi Joe,

We always enjoy your input here and have for years.

Thanks Sal. This forum and Spyderco's knives have meant a lot to many of us. It has been a part of our lives for a long time. :)



Joe

[Doc Dan]

I’ve got two knives i this steel,a Caly3 and a Dragonfly. It stays sharp better than most any other steel, but can be a bear to sharpen. Good stuff. I have not had any rust issues at all.

Here’s a good question...would you all rather have ZDP-189, or M390, Cruwear, or something else?

[emanuel]

IMHO If any steel is overrated it's S110V. (...) and it also has very poor toughness.

That's only because mass produced knives don't run it at optimal hardness. Sad but true. The only way to experience it at its full is from a custom maker, unlike steels like Rex 45, M4, ZDP etc. which seem to be easier to HT. S110V likes high hardness, 62hrc just doesn't cut it, and its toughness isn't any better just because its lower hardness, on the contrary even. That being sad, I have only one Spyderco in ZDP-189 and I love it so far, had a bit of staining so I keep it lightly oiled. No issue since then (3 years and counting).

[JuPaul]

I’ve got two knives i this steel,a Caly3 and a Dragonfly. It stays sharp better than most any other steel, but can be a bear to sharpen. Good stuff. I have not had any rust issues at all.

Here’s a good question...would you all rather have ZDP-189, or M390, Cruwear, or something else?

Hands down, it's Cruwear for me. Much tougher at equal hardnesses as m390, easy to sharpen, and practically stainless. I do understand that super high edge retention is important for lots of people, though, but in that case, m390 suits me just fine. I find it easy to sharpen, it's unquestionably stainless, and it has pretty decent toughness (according to Larrin's testing).

[5-by-5]

s90v is “easier” and I prefer it over s110v and zdp honestly.

I’ll take s30v or s90v any day over those and I’m not a huge fan of them. But I’ll use em, carry em and sharpen em all the same.

I think they’re all overrated though. s30v does just fine, as does vg10. If the heat treats right I don’t care.

VG10 is awesome. Nothing like chippy sXXv whatever.

I only had one knife in sXXv anything was chippy. They key is to full sharpen them 3-5 times and get off all the “burnt” steel created by sharpening at the factory. Most people aren’t willing to wait long enough to get to the “good” steel. And I mean sharpen or “reprofile” Not microbevel the factory edge.

That's true. I use to like sharpening. My vision has backed me off a bit.

[p_atrick]

Here’s a good question...would you all rather have ZDP-189, or M390, Cruwear, or something else?

Hard to see most steels being more preferable than Cruwear right now (especially if it comes with micarta scales - that combo is getting a lot of love). I wouldn't be surprised to see ZDP starting to get replaced. It was the steel for wear resistance on the Seki knives. But now that factory is working with non-native steels, I just don't see the demand for ZDP going to grow. Haven't tried it myself, but maybe I should before it falls completely out of favor.

[elena86]

I love ZDP. It gets stupid sharp with no real effort, given you use the proper stones and it keeps that sharpness for quite a long time. Overrated ? Compared to what... unobtanium !?