Liner Lock Failure??

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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jdw
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Liner Lock Failure??

#1

Post by jdw »

I am kind of wondering who has had a Spyderco liner lock fail on them without intentional abuse/misuse? I have used a Military and a GB1 pretty heavily without any kind of stress that I felt would even kind of cause lock failure. I don't use a liner lock if I am doing something that is obviously going to gunk up the lock and cause failure, but that's just kind of common sense. The lock is not going to fail from just sheer stress. Grab a fixed blade or a pry tool if you really want to torque on something.

EDIT: In response to Sal's Casual Bombshell thread.
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The Mastiff
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#2

Post by The Mastiff »

My guess is that wasn't about failure as much as weak detent/loose pivots causing the blade to open while in the pocket. It happened to me with another brand liner lock and caused a bad slice to my hand when I reached into my pocket at a gas station. In my case keeping the pivot tighter would have prevented that but I still will not carry a liner lock in my pocket as a matter of policy and habit.

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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#3

Post by Notsurewhy »

I think some people go a little overboard worrying about lock strength. I have never had an issue with a liner lock or any other lock failing on a knife from a quality brand without intentional abuse (anecdote <> data, I know). The closest was a broken spring on an axis lock, but it still worked fine with only one spring until I sent it in for repair.

They are not my favorite lock type, but I prefer liner locks to frame locks and in some cases I prefer one over a compression lock e.g. flippers or on a narrow knife like the kapara.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#4

Post by Wartstein »

Don´t / didn´t carry linerlocks a lot (for quite some time now exclusivly backlocks tbh), but never had any problems whatsoever.
Only knife that opened in my pocket and cut me (twice) was an axxis-lock one.

Like Notsurewhy I prefer a well executed linerlock over a comp.lock (generally, not just in some cases)
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#5

Post by ladybug93 »

i've never had any lock fail on me ever, even from cheap knives. i've also never had a slip joint close on me. i don't know what people are doing with their knives.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#6

Post by Notsurewhy »

ladybug93 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:44 am
i've never had any lock fail on me ever, even from cheap knives. i've also never had a slip joint close on me. i don't know what people are doing with their knives.
I did some really ill advised things with some flea market/gas station quality knives in my mispent yewt. :o

Still had issues more like "lock won't engage unless you push the bar" than coming unlocked. I don't ever remember one folding up while cutting anything. Maybe while hitting it with a piece of wood...
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#7

Post by James Y »

I’ve never had a liner lock (or any other lock) fail in me or close while using it. I did have a couple older Emerson CQC-7s whose liner locks would sort of “pop off” the blade tang if I used light-to-moderate hand pressure to the back of the blades, but they never came completely,Evelyn unlocked. Then again, I stopped carrying them long ago.

For me, the Spyderco Military is the best-made liner lock out there.

I’ve also never had a slip joint pocketknife...”traditional” or SAK...close on me during use, ever. And I’ve been carrying and using slip joints since the ‘70s and SAKs for going on 40 years now. I tend to view blade locks as an additional safety feature that isn’t foolproof, but is there to supplement careful handling. I have acccidentally cut myself while using knives, and it’s always because my attention lapsed, and/or I temporarily took it for granted and forgot to respect the knife.

Although in some uses, accidental closures can happen. I have heard of a hunter who was field dressing a deer and had his Buck 110 close on his hand, injuring him badly. Failures can occur, for a variety of reasons not necessarily related to abuse.

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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#8

Post by prndltech »

I’ve done some stupid things with a military... twisting, prying, broke the blade, lock never budged.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#9

Post by curlyhairedboy »

I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#10

Post by The Deacon »

jdw wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:12 am
I am kind of wondering who has had a Spyderco liner lock fail on them without intentional abuse/misuse? I have used a Military and a GB1 pretty heavily without any kind of stress that I felt would even kind of cause lock failure. I don't use a liner lock if I am doing something that is obviously going to gunk up the lock and cause failure, but that's just kind of common sense. The lock is not going to fail from just sheer stress. Grab a fixed blade or a pry tool if you really want to torque on something.

EDIT: In response to Sal's Casual Bombshell thread.

If this thread is a response to the post I think it is, then you're asking the wrong question. Pretty sure the poster there was commenting on the questionable ability of the ball detent in liner locks to keep the knife closed completely 100% of the time when carried loose in the pocket. While I think the risk of a knife like the Bradley Air that has a small lightweight blade partial opening while in the pocket is highly unlikely, at least for anyone not practicing Parkour while carrying it, I'd suggest that criticism would apply to any type of lock that relies on a small ball detent to keep the knife closed unless carried clipped, tip down, with the blade against the back of your pocket.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#11

Post by cbrstar »

The only liner locks that have opened on me in the pocket were all flippers! The back pocket + tip up + flipper = Bad idea.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#12

Post by The Meat man »

Never had a liner lock fail on me, Spyderco or otherwise.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#13

Post by Albatross »

Honestly, it's not a great idea to carry a knife loose in the pocket, unless it's a slip joint, back lock, or CBBL knife. Even then, in my opinion, it's not the safest of ideas, but if you can do it safely, keep on keeping on.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#14

Post by Wartstein »

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#15

Post by Halfneck »

I've had one liner-lock fail on me (not a Spyderco).

I was sawing through some heavy duty cardboard & when the blade became wedged in I yanked up hard. I felt the blade pop loose & begin to fold so I ceased all movement. Luckily I did not get cut. Checking the knife out later I found I could replicate what happened with a light spine whack. Let me put an emphasis on *Light Spine Whack* as I think the people that all out hammer a liner lock in a spine whack are being excessive.

I have 2 other liner-lock knives from that same company & both lock up vault tight. That particular knife is just a lemon, but I will admit it has deteriorated my trust in liner-locks some.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#16

Post by Evil D »

I've beat the crap out of my Militaries without any failures. I usually don't pry doors off hinges or baton through car doors though so maybe my hard use is just not hard enough.
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#17

Post by redhawk44357 »

Liner lock, nope......flipper (not spiderco) oh yeah!
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#18

Post by rangefinder »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.

He may be referring to the fact that with a compression lock, the lock bar is held between the blade and the stop pin, so for the lock to fail the entire knife basically has to come apart. Unlike a liner lock, where the lock bar can just fold out of the way and the knife will close.

Michael Janich explains the difference using cutaway models of knives in several videos. Here's one I had bookmarked (evolution of the Yojimbo) -- the explanation of the locks starts at the 9:25 mark:

https://youtu.be/1ddOdONCCqU
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#19

Post by James Y »

rangefinder wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:15 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.

He may be referring to the fact that with a compression lock, the lock bar is held between the blade and the stop pin, so for the lock to fail the entire knife basically has to come apart. Unlike a liner lock, where the lock bar can just fold out of the way and the knife will close.

Michael Janich explains the difference using cutaway models of knives in several videos. Here's one I had bookmarked (evolution of the Yojimbo) -- the explanation of the locks starts at the 9:25 mark:

https://youtu.be/1ddOdONCCqU
Thanks for posting that. I always enjoy and learn a lot from Michael Janich’s posts and his videos.

Jim
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Re: Liner Lock Failure??

#20

Post by curlyhairedboy »

yeah, my concerns about liner locks have to do with the geometry - a thin, long, liner under lengthwise compression is much more vulnerable to buckling than a much shorter tab.
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