Liner Lock Failure??

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
jdw
Member
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:10 pm
Location: Red Dirt

Liner Lock Failure??

Postby jdw » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:12 am

I am kind of wondering who has had a Spyderco liner lock fail on them without intentional abuse/misuse? I have used a Military and a GB1 pretty heavily without any kind of stress that I felt would even kind of cause lock failure. I don't use a liner lock if I am doing something that is obviously going to gunk up the lock and cause failure, but that's just kind of common sense. The lock is not going to fail from just sheer stress. Grab a fixed blade or a pry tool if you really want to torque on something.

EDIT: In response to Sal's Casual Bombshell thread.
Do right always. It will give you satisfaction in life.
--Wovoka

User avatar
The Mastiff
Member
Posts: 5236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
Location: raleigh nc

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby The Mastiff » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:36 am

My guess is that wasn't about failure as much as weak detent/loose pivots causing the blade to open while in the pocket. It happened to me with another brand liner lock and caused a bad slice to my hand when I reached into my pocket at a gas station. In my case keeping the pivot tighter would have prevented that but I still will not carry a liner lock in my pocket as a matter of policy and habit.

Joe

Notsurewhy
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Notsurewhy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:14 am

I think some people go a little overboard worrying about lock strength. I have never had an issue with a liner lock or any other lock failing on a knife from a quality brand without intentional abuse (anecdote <> data, I know). The closest was a broken spring on an axis lock, but it still worked fine with only one spring until I sent it in for repair.

They are not my favorite lock type, but I prefer liner locks to frame locks and in some cases I prefer one over a compression lock e.g. flippers or on a narrow knife like the kapara.

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Wartstein » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:39 am

Don´t / didn´t carry linerlocks a lot (for quite some time now exclusivly backlocks tbh), but never had any problems whatsoever.
Only knife that opened in my pocket and cut me (twice) was an axxis-lock one.

Like Notsurewhy I prefer a well executed linerlock over a comp.lock (generally, not just in some cases)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

ladybug93
Member
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby ladybug93 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:44 am

i've never had any lock fail on me ever, even from cheap knives. i've also never had a slip joint close on me. i don't know what people are doing with their knives.

Notsurewhy
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Notsurewhy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:04 pm

ladybug93 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:44 am
i've never had any lock fail on me ever, even from cheap knives. i've also never had a slip joint close on me. i don't know what people are doing with their knives.
I did some really ill advised things with some flea market/gas station quality knives in my mispent yewt. :o

Still had issues more like "lock won't engage unless you push the bar" than coming unlocked. I don't ever remember one folding up while cutting anything. Maybe while hitting it with a piece of wood...

James Y
Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby James Y » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:09 pm

I’ve never had a liner lock (or any other lock) fail in me or close while using it. I did have a couple older Emerson CQC-7s whose liner locks would sort of “pop off” the blade tang if I used light-to-moderate hand pressure to the back of the blades, but they never came completely,Evelyn unlocked. Then again, I stopped carrying them long ago.

For me, the Spyderco Military is the best-made liner lock out there.

I’ve also never had a slip joint pocketknife...”traditional” or SAK...close on me during use, ever. And I’ve been carrying and using slip joints since the ‘70s and SAKs for going on 40 years now. I tend to view blade locks as an additional safety feature that isn’t foolproof, but is there to supplement careful handling. I have acccidentally cut myself while using knives, and it’s always because my attention lapsed, and/or I temporarily took it for granted and forgot to respect the knife.

Although in some uses, accidental closures can happen. I have heard of a hunter who was field dressing a deer and had his Buck 110 close on his hand, injuring him badly. Failures can occur, for a variety of reasons not necessarily related to abuse.

Jim

prndltech
Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:53 am
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby prndltech » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:23 pm

I’ve done some stupid things with a military... twisting, prying, broke the blade, lock never budged.
The planter, the farmer, the mechanic, and the laborer... form the great body of the people of the United States, they are the bone and sinew of the country men who love liberty and desire nothing but equal rights and equal laws. - Andrew Jackson

User avatar
curlyhairedboy
Member
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:01 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm

I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Watu, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!

User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25134
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby The Deacon » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:51 pm

jdw wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:12 am
I am kind of wondering who has had a Spyderco liner lock fail on them without intentional abuse/misuse? I have used a Military and a GB1 pretty heavily without any kind of stress that I felt would even kind of cause lock failure. I don't use a liner lock if I am doing something that is obviously going to gunk up the lock and cause failure, but that's just kind of common sense. The lock is not going to fail from just sheer stress. Grab a fixed blade or a pry tool if you really want to torque on something.

EDIT: In response to Sal's Casual Bombshell thread.

If this thread is a response to the post I think it is, then you're asking the wrong question. Pretty sure the poster there was commenting on the questionable ability of the ball detent in liner locks to keep the knife closed completely 100% of the time when carried loose in the pocket. While I think the risk of a knife like the Bradley Air that has a small lightweight blade partial opening while in the pocket is highly unlikely, at least for anyone not practicing Parkour while carrying it, I'd suggest that criticism would apply to any type of lock that relies on a small ball detent to keep the knife closed unless carried clipped, tip down, with the blade against the back of your pocket.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

cbrstar
Member
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:02 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby cbrstar » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:09 pm

The only liner locks that have opened on me in the pocket were all flippers! The back pocket + tip up + flipper = Bad idea.

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 3243
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby The Meat man » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:40 pm

Never had a liner lock fail on me, Spyderco or otherwise.
- Connor

"You live and learn. At any rate, you live."

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Albatross » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:07 pm

Honestly, it's not a great idea to carry a knife loose in the pocket, unless it's a slip joint, back lock, or CBBL knife. Even then, in my opinion, it's not the safest of ideas, but if you can do it safely, keep on keeping on.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Wartstein » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Halfneck
Member
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:51 am
Location: Calhoun, Georgia.

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Halfneck » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:21 pm

I've had one liner-lock fail on me (not a Spyderco).

I was sawing through some heavy duty cardboard & when the blade became wedged in I yanked up hard. I felt the blade pop loose & begin to fold so I ceased all movement. Luckily I did not get cut. Checking the knife out later I found I could replicate what happened with a light spine whack. Let me put an emphasis on *Light Spine Whack* as I think the people that all out hammer a liner lock in a spine whack are being excessive.

I have 2 other liner-lock knives from that same company & both lock up vault tight. That particular knife is just a lemon, but I will admit it has deteriorated my trust in liner-locks some.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 21118
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:42 pm

I've beat the crap out of my Militaries without any failures. I usually don't pry doors off hinges or baton through car doors though so maybe my hard use is just not hard enough.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
redhawk44357
Member
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby redhawk44357 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Liner lock, nope......flipper (not spiderco) oh yeah!

rangefinder
Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby rangefinder » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:15 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.

He may be referring to the fact that with a compression lock, the lock bar is held between the blade and the stop pin, so for the lock to fail the entire knife basically has to come apart. Unlike a liner lock, where the lock bar can just fold out of the way and the knife will close.

Michael Janich explains the difference using cutaway models of knives in several videos. Here's one I had bookmarked (evolution of the Yojimbo) -- the explanation of the locks starts at the 9:25 mark:

https://youtu.be/1ddOdONCCqU

James Y
Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby James Y » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:57 pm

rangefinder wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:15 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm
curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:32 pm
I've never seen a spyderco liner lock fail in the locked position, but I prefer the related compression lock because of the superior physical arrangement.

May I ask: What do you mean by that?
Imho other than that "fingers never in the blade path" - thing (rather irrelevant for a bit experienced knife users in my opionion), a liner lock offers a more secure and natural grip of the knife while operation ((closing) compared to a comp.lock.

He may be referring to the fact that with a compression lock, the lock bar is held between the blade and the stop pin, so for the lock to fail the entire knife basically has to come apart. Unlike a liner lock, where the lock bar can just fold out of the way and the knife will close.

Michael Janich explains the difference using cutaway models of knives in several videos. Here's one I had bookmarked (evolution of the Yojimbo) -- the explanation of the locks starts at the 9:25 mark:

https://youtu.be/1ddOdONCCqU
Thanks for posting that. I always enjoy and learn a lot from Michael Janich’s posts and his videos.

Jim

User avatar
curlyhairedboy
Member
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:01 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: Liner Lock Failure??

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:52 pm

yeah, my concerns about liner locks have to do with the geometry - a thin, long, liner under lengthwise compression is much more vulnerable to buckling than a much shorter tab.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Watu, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Accutron, Burton Knut, Holland, JMM, Molle Ninja, MSN [Bot], Mushroom, Notsurewhy, Tabo, timlara, Wartstein and 20 guests