Linerless: Any issues?

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Hobnob
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Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Hobnob » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:19 pm

I own quite a few models that are linerless and a bunch that have liners. Recently my main carry has been the Salt 2 SE. I don't recall anyone having any problems with linerless models. There have been no problems with mine either.

One would think that the lack of liners would cause a loose blade over time, or the structural integrity would be compromised. Just curious what others think or have experienced.

Like I said, there have not been any issues for me. Matter of fact I like the reduction of weight. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see more models that are linerless.

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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby prndltech » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:28 pm

I’ve had less play In my linerless models than I have had in my knives that have liners... even after a lot of use. Sometimes just out of the box. I firmly believe that no folding knife NEEDS liners. While I like a hefty knife in hand, I don’t like one in the pocket. I see both sides to it. I like the 1 oz per inch of blade rule in folders. If I want a tank of a knife, that’s beefy and heavy.... I’ll carry a fixed blade.
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vivi
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby vivi » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:30 pm

I've used Pacific Salts pretty hard. I have some over a decade old and they don't show any excessive play. I'm confident in their strength. I used to think linerless knives felt cheap and flimsy, but I've learned that just because I can flex the handles white knuckling them doesn't mean they're weak.

Like you I enjoy the weight reduction it brings.

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zuludelta
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby zuludelta » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:08 pm

I have a number of linerless knives in my work knife rotation (Salt 2, Tasman Salt 2, Native 5 Lightweight) alongside a couple of knives with liners (Delica 4, Alcyone) and I haven't experienced any significant blade play or lock rock in the former, and I imagine I use my work knives more than the average knife knut given the nature of my work (I work in a warehouse where I probably use my knife at least a couple of hundred times over a typical shift to cut pallet straps, netting, nylon rope, and other materials).

I don't really have a dog in the "liner vs. linerless" debate, but I will say, I appreciate the weight reduction offered by the lack of a liner, as well as the decreased potential for corrosion. And as prndltech mentioned, if I find myself facing a situation where a linerless folder will have insufficient structural strength, I'm carrying a fixed-blade instead. The right tool for the job and all that.
Last edited by zuludelta on Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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VooDooChild
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby VooDooChild » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:14 pm

Im pretty sure that on a well constructed knife, even a linerless one, the blade will break before the handle. I remember seeing this with a linerless g10 knife.
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Stuart Ackerman » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:28 pm

A steel blade, G10 or FRN scales, and phosphor bronze bearings...the knife should never have issues apart from side play, which is not really a big thing in my understanding.

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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:29 pm

sometimes it can change the balance of the knife. for example, i think the native salt is balanced perfectly and the lined natives are very handle-heavy. however, i do tend to prefer the knives with liners usually because i prefer the more sturdy feel. i agree with vivi that the linerless spyderco knives are plenty strong, but i still don’t feel as confident with linerless models as i do with lined models. any knife can develop play, but i’ve had less from lined knives and less play is better than more play, regardless of how much that more is.

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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Doc Dan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:33 pm

I used to believe all knives had to have liners because 20 years ago I had a knife I was using in an emergency flex badly on me. However, linerless technology has come a very long way since then. Now, I normally prefer linerless.
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Wartstein
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:37 pm

There are no issues whatsoever with my Pac Salt and there were no with my Native 5 LW and Manix 2 LW (don't have those anymore).

If I compare Pac Salt and Endura directly, I like the feel of the heavier handle and the overall slightly different balance in hand of the linered Endura a bit more (or am just more used to it?), but that's nothing that affects practical use in any way.

Theoretical downsides of linerless construction I can think of:

- MUCH harder to come up with custom scales
- Really thin handles probably still need liners (?) - think Chaparral FRN
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Pancake
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Pancake » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:01 am

There is still that possible issue of blade play developing. In linerless you have pivot directly in G10/FRN and the forces that are applied on blade and on pivot could mess the handle a bit and thus created a blade play... I feel like this is a concern that is not really relevant with normal use.
Some people beat the hell out of Salt models and they are fine....
And if you are twisting your knife with every single cut, you should just use fixed blade, or a pry bar.

My Native Chief is a lovely knife and I don´t see how liners could improve it - it would be heavier for sure, but heavier =/= better.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby ugaarguy » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:08 am

I prefer liner-less. I've had liners rust, so I prefer not to have them in the handle to trap moisture and debris. I've found that the thread inserts on liner-less knives offer more secure clip mounting than threading the screws into the relatively thin liners on other knives. Metal handled knives with integral locks (Frame lock, original comp lock as seen on the first A.T.R.) don't need liners either.

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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby knivesandbooks » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:13 am

I wouldn't hesitate on buying a linerless knife. I personally hesitate on frn because aesthetics but liners don't matter in my experience.
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby StuntZombie » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:45 am

Count me in among the linerless fans. I much prefer not having to disassemble a knife every couple weeks to clean the rust off liners.
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:58 am

Everything is better with full liners! :cool:

It's better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

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Albatross
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Albatross » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:18 am

If any damage occurs to the scales of a linerless knife, you don't have many options, beyond warranty repair, assuming it's covered. I wore down the FRN on my old Delica, which is clearly not linerless, but highlights the fact that FRN does wear over time and will need to be replaced. Mine was becoming slick from several years of frequent use. My old G10 Manix was also wearing smooth. So what happens to a discontinued linerless model that needs new scales? Is the knife then useless? I've seen complaints about G10 peeling after several years of use as well, so I'm not sure there's a good material for long-term use as linerless scales. Yet.

Models like the P4 G10 would be easy to make scales for, if there were no aftermarket options(which there really aren't any), because the scales are not milled on the liner side, unlike the Endura or Delica. The option to have wood scales on knives with liners is a nice bonus for me.
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby The Meat man » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:00 am

In response to the question: no, I haven't had any issues with linerless handles.
However...
Generally, weight is not a big issue for me, so while I notice the reduced weight of linerless models, most times the difference is irrelevant to me personally. In fact, I tend to appreciate a knife with a bit more solidity and weight.
I also like the added strength of full steel liners, and as Albatross noted above, their greater potential for customized handles.

I don't have strong feelings either way. I like my Pacific Salt for what it is, but I also enjoy the heft of my Autonomy 2. I'm glad we have both options from Spyderco.
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Jazz
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Jazz » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:23 am

The only time I'd prefer liners is in bitter cold, where the FRN might become brittle. Otherwise, I like light knives. My linerless G10 Native and Manix back lock are solid as can be. Same with my Cold Steels.
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby blendergasket » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am

Right when I got in to knives and before I started always carrying a fixed blade with me for woods time I batoned quite a bit of firewood into kindling with my manix 2 lw. The only thing that happened to it was an extremely slight bend in the blade. Still locks up like a champ with no blade play.

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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Surfingringo » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:08 am

No advantage to having liners in my usage and numerous advantages to linerless. My linerless knives (salts) get used FAR heavier than any other folders I own. I have never had the slightest issue with strength or integrity with linerless frn knives. Same story with G10. The main advantages for me are lighter weight and vastly improved corrosion resistance. I’ve gotten so used to the LW knives that I rarely carry g10 knives with liners anymore. I don’t hate liners but given the choice I’ll take the weight savings and corrosion resistance of linerless.

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Wartstein
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Re: Linerless: Any issues?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:27 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:08 am
No advantage to having liners in my usage and numerous advantages to linerless. My linerless knives (salts) get used FAR heavier than any other folders I own. I have never had the slightest issue with strength or integrity with linerless frn knives. Same story with G10. The main advantages for me are lighter weight and vastly improved corrosion resistance. I’ve gotten so used to the LW knives that I rarely carry g10 knives with liners anymore. I don’t hate liners but given the choice I’ll take the weight savings and corrosion resistance of linerless.
A bit off topic,maybe: But talking ´bout linerless G10 folders: Any news on the Siren-release? :rolleyes:
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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