Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

[Ankerson]

Hi Kenneth.

MSRP is base line price from which discounts are measured. The year that we dropped MRP and just went with NET pricing, all of the dealers complained. They want to be able to say they're saving you this much money off of MSRP.

Hi Darby,

I don't think MAP will change from 30%. That seems to be the standard in the industry these days. I will say that MAP and not selling to Amazon has increased our dealer base and most are pleased with the business model. We still have some solutions to find with Europe and export to other countries.

FYI,

Our prices, as always are based on; costs (materials, labor, overhead) + profit = price. We keep our profit reasonable for success. I agree that wages are not growing as fast as manufacturing costs. That's a problem for the US economy and for our government to improve. That's why the low cost of goods manufactured n China are so desirable.

That's how China is planning on taking over the world economy. As their quality improves and their downplayed Yuan continues, it will only get worse. Unlike other developing nations, Like Japan for example, they value their money unfairly so they always have an advantage. That's what the tariffs are all about.

When we first began making knives in Japan, they were much cheaper. We sold Endura's at shows for $30 and Delica's for $25. (1990) The Japanese Yen was 2-1/2 to $1.00 and as the Yen got stronger, the costs for us went up. When the Yen was as strong as the Dollar, the wold market adjusted and Japan. like any fair nation competed in the marketplace. The Chinese Yuan is 12 to 1. You do the math.

sal

Yes, I agree.

I believe they have started moving some things to Viet-Nam now because China is now becoming more expensive than it was so they will start to bail out of there.

So they went from Japan to Taiwan to China and now to Viet-Nam, that's not including others like India and some countries in Africa.

I don't know were it will end up eventually, but I do think these Countries have been getting exploited to a certain extent especially by the MEGA Corporations/Conglomerates.

The good news is there are more Companies bringing manufacturing back into the US, that's not a bad thing at all IMO.

The only real problem is if history repeats itself again and they bail out again like they did before.

Personally I don't trust the Corporations at all because given past history they will throw their employees away like old socks at the 1st chance.


As far as Spyderco goes you guys have to keep the profit margins so you can keep the lights on or you may as well just lock the doors....

[Albatross]

Very interesting point of view. Thanx. So, how do we solve the wage problem?

Realistically, we give regular raises, bonuses, and other spiffs. But the cost of doing business is rising faster than the increase in wages pretty much throughout the country. I believe that somewhere, there is a solution, it's just more elusive than it might appear.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think it's relevant.

sal

Through better economic performance (not by passing laws), both at the macro level and within firms.

Exactly.

Many companies seem to be very inefficient. The last company I worked for, wasted thousands per day, then passed the burden on to the employees. Stubbornness and ego seem to keep good ideas under wraps.

[Ankerson]

Very interesting point of view. Thanx. So, how do we solve the wage problem?

Realistically, we give regular raises, bonuses, and other spiffs. But the cost of doing business is rising faster than the increase in wages pretty much throughout the country. I believe that somewhere, there is a solution, it's just more elusive than it might appear.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think it's relevant.

sal

Through better economic performance (not by passing laws), both at the macro level and within firms.

Exactly.

Many companies seem to be very inefficient. The last company I worked for, wasted thousands per day, then passed the burden on to the employees. Stubbornness and ego seem to keep good ideas under wraps.

That's called blatant stupidly and almost all of that is due to middle management and up being completely idiotic.

That's were almost all of the real issues are and take place in the Corporate world.

[Albatross]

Very interesting point of view. Thanx. So, how do we solve the wage problem?

Realistically, we give regular raises, bonuses, and other spiffs. But the cost of doing business is rising faster than the increase in wages pretty much throughout the country. I believe that somewhere, there is a solution, it's just more elusive than it might appear.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think it's relevant.

sal

Through better economic performance (not by passing laws), both at the macro level and within firms.

Exactly.

Many companies seem to be very inefficient. The last company I worked for, wasted thousands per day, then passed the burden on to the employees. Stubbornness and ego seem to keep good ideas under wraps.

That's called blatant stupidly and almost all of that is due to middle management and up being completely idiotic.

More ego than brains for sure. It's too bad, because if that waste were eliminated, it would allow for a slight bump in wages. I've seen too many places embrace their least valuable and run off their most important employees, killing morale and furthering the waste.

As others have pointed out though, it's a very complex issue and I've only brought up one potential cause.

[Ankerson]

Through better economic performance (not by passing laws), both at the macro level and within firms.

Exactly.

Many companies seem to be very inefficient. The last company I worked for, wasted thousands per day, then passed the burden on to the employees. Stubbornness and ego seem to keep good ideas under wraps.

That's called blatant stupidly and almost all of that is due to middle management and up being completely idiotic.

More ego than brains for sure. It's too bad, because if that waste were eliminated, it would allow for a slight bump in wages. I've seen too many places embrace their least valuable and run off their most important employees, killing morale and furthering the waste.

As others have pointed out though, it's a very complex issue and I've only brought up one potential cause.

Corporate Politics is a mass of stupidity and ineptness in general, they create their own problems. The bad part is that it's the ones at the bottom that end up paying the price for their stupidity. If there is a problem they are more worried about who to blame than how to address the issue and fix it. They will point fingers at everyone but themselves, when it's them that caused the issue in the 1st place.

That's why things never really get fixed unless they clean house and hire in all new management from middle management up to the top.

[yablanowitz]

There isn't a good way. Raising wages increases costs, which is passed on in higher prices, which offsets increased wages. As long as the population continues to rise this will continue.

Interesting perspective. You think that increased population is part of the equation. Please explain?

sal

Increasing population means we have more mouths to feed, which means we need more food, shelter, etc. On an individual level, it means we each need more and more money to support the needs of our growing families. That's where you get into the governments printing more promissory notes (money) leading to devaluation of the currency and inflation. Of course, when the money is worth less, we need more of it.

It doesn't help matters any that people (at least the ones I've seen lately) have mostly stopped learning to live within their means. Everyone seems to live on credit now, very few of us are living debt free. And living debt free is getting harder to do. The first thing you have to do is forget entitlement, and that's just not fun so people don't want to do it. "Borrow your way to affluence and die in debt" seems to be the motto of the last couple of generations.

I really don't envy you. Being in a luxury goods business is bound to get tough at times, especially when people finally realize that they can't extend their credit to infinity. Eventually they have to pay the Piper.

[curlyhairedboy]

I'd say it's clear that in terms of total compensation (pay plus benefits), the costs to employers on the benefit side have risen very fast, eating significantly into any potential for pay increases.

I'm only a customer (and thus have just the outside perspective), but it seems that Spyderco's views on charging a reasonable cost for their products and not going to the extremes of 'what the market will bear' is not a widespread philosophy in the business world.

Ultimately, higher wages lead to better sales, as Mr. Ford observed. One wonders what the end goal is for a consumer economy where real wages are on the decline. Of course, some companies are already in the endgame and are choosing to cater to the consumers of much larger countries. The American consumer may end up with their interests discounted.

[VooDooChild]

So on knife centers website they have a thing at the top that says last chance for 2019 prices. It specifically says spyderco and benchmade. It says prices will increase January 1st.

But sal said spyderco is holding most of thier prices for 2020.

So are prices going up or are the dealers just going to charge us more?

[RamZar]

So on knife centers website they have a thing at the top that says last chance for 2019 prices. It specifically says spyderco and benchmade. It says prices will increase January 1st.

But sal said spyderco is holding most of thier prices for 2020.

So are prices going up or are the dealers just going to charge us more?

For the consumer a price increase could come about by an increase in MSRP or less of a discount off MSRP for MAP pricing or both.

Currently, Spyderco has a MAP pricing of 35% off MSRP but the discount will be 30% off MSRP come 1.1.2020 which will have a net results of price increase for the consumer on that alone.

[JuPaul]

Seems like some dealers have already gone to the 30% off MSRP for newer stock. For example, the Sage 5 lw is $113.75 (35% off $175 msrp) at Knife Center, but it's $122.50 at DLT (30% off $175).

[VooDooChild]

Seems like some dealers have already gone to the 30% off MSRP for newer stock. For example, the Sage 5 lw is $113.75 (35% off $175 msrp) at Knife Center, but it's $122.50 at DLT (30% off $175).

I think that was the first instance of it. And I think its the only one at 30% until next year.

Some knives were never available this year. Specifically the siren. Its presumably getting a price increase before it was ever in stock. If you preorder do the dealers honor the price at the time of preorder or do they charge you current msrp?

I thought I was done buying knives this year but I might have to grab a couple more spydies tomorrow.

[JuPaul]

Seems like some dealers have already gone to the 30% off MSRP for newer stock. For example, the Sage 5 lw is $113.75 (35% off $175 msrp) at Knife Center, but it's $122.50 at DLT (30% off $175).

I think that was the first instance of it. And I think its the only one at 30% until next year.

Some knives were never available this year. Specifically the siren. Its presumably getting a price increase before it was ever in stock. If you preorder do the dealers honor the price at the time of preorder or do they charge you current msrp?

I thought I was done buying knives this year but I might have to grab a couple more spydies tomorrow.

Several dealers have gone to 30% already on old stock, too. The brown/dlc s35vn pm2, for example, has presumably been around a while everywhere. But it's $162.47 at KC, $174.99 at DLT. Looking around, a few other places have upper the price on that one, too.

[Archimedes]

Please raise prices so I can get a sprint run knife from the dealer before it goes up the next week 200 over MSRP on Ebay from the serial flippers.

[Albatross]

Please raise prices so I can get a sprint run knife from the dealer before it goes up the next week 200 over MSRP on Ebay from the serial flippers.

That might also limit the exclusive runs, due to a lowered demand for higher-priced knives. It would be unfortunate to see less available options for models like the PM2 or Delica. I don't think price increases are necessarily something to celebrate, despite how necessary they are for the manufacturers.

[awa54]

There isn't a good way. Raising wages increases costs, which is passed on in higher prices, which offsets increased wages. As long as the population continues to rise this will continue.

Interesting perspective. You think that increased population is part of the equation. Please explain?

sal

Increasing population means we have more mouths to feed, which means we need more food, shelter, etc. On an individual level, it means we each need more and more money to support the needs of our growing families. That's where you get into the governments printing more promissory notes (money) leading to devaluation of the currency and inflation. Of course, when the money is worth less, we need more of it.

It doesn't help matters any that people (at least the ones I've seen lately) have mostly stopped learning to live within their means. Everyone seems to live on credit now, very few of us are living debt free. And living debt free is getting harder to do. The first thing you have to do is forget entitlement, and that's just not fun so people don't want to do it. "Borrow your way to affluence and die in debt" seems to be the motto of the last couple of generations.

I really don't envy you. Being in a luxury goods business is bound to get tough at times, especially when people finally realize that they can't extend their credit to infinity. Eventually they have to pay the Piper.

First off: I'm guilty of what I'm going to say here, less than many more than some...

The developed nations of the world are pretty much living beyond the means of the Earth's carrying capacity in light of human population growth.

What's the solution? No clean, easy, painless thing will make this situation better, it will take a major restructuring of consumer habits in the developed world as well as a stop to short term wealth taking at the expense of the developing world. We're staring bigger problems in the face than expensive gas and price increases on our favorite luxury items

[sal]

Hi David,

While it's a bit off topic, I commend your vision. There are a number of "existential threats" facing our country and the world. Unfortunately, in my opinion, too few are looking into their crystal balls. Actually, it's a very complicated problem. The antithesis of your comment is a book called, "America Alone" which addresses the need for 2.2 children per female to maintain a society, and how very few modern societies are maintaining that minimum.

With Italy and Japan at 1.3 (children per female) and Russia so low they are paying people to have children, it does need some global looksee..

sal

[Ankerson]

Hi David,

While it's a bit off topic, I commend your vision. There are a number of "existential threats" facing our country and the world. Unfortunately, in my opinion, too few are looking into their crystal balls. Actually, it's a very complicated problem. The antithesis of your comment is a book called, "America Alone" which addresses the need for 2.2 children per female to maintain a society, and how very few modern societies are maintaining that minimum.

With Italy and Japan at 1.3 (children per female) and Russia so low they are paying people to have children, it does need some global looksee..

sal

The 3rd world countries are more than making up for the gap from what I have been reading.

Reason why the world population keeps increasing despite what the 1st world countries are doing.

But as you said that's off topic...

I could go deeper, but that would be politics and definitely out of bounds.

[ChrisinHove]

Our societies are addicted to unnaturally cheap, disposable consumer goods, and credit to buy it with.

People choose not to pay a skilled repairer to repair or service a quality item when they can buy a functional (in the short term) replacement cheaper. The negative knock on effects include transport, premises, tool suppliers, training etc as well as employment, as well as reducing the perceived need for the quality item itself.

Cheap tools also provide the means of not having to pay skilled tradesmen for their work.

The declining birth rate is at least partly down to cost of living. In many places you need 2 wages just to afford to put a roof over your head. Deferring having your own home or deferring starting a family will both limit its eventual size.

It’s interesting how family sizes have rapidly changed. My MIL was one of 13, my own mother one of 6, but 3 kids is now considered a large family.

[curlyhairedboy]

Re: big picture challenges such as economies that work with low or negative growth :

A lot of blood, sweat and tears went into creating the improvements we've seen in medicine, education, and representation. It's clear that we value quality over quantity when it comes to creating and nurturing the next generation.

I'm less worried about any sort of "overrun situation" since virtually any parent can see that a higher standard of living (and survival) for fewer children is better than a lower standard of living with more children. I'm happy that the days of needing to have 10 kids because 5 may not make it are largely over. (not a knock against large families if you want them, but that should be a choice not a socioeconomic requirement)

How do our economies catch up to that reality?

[SG89]

I began my Spydie journey in 2015. Since that time, MAP has gone from 40% to 35% to 30%. Utilities and food prices have increased and my salary has not moved an inch. Just means I will have to limit my "wants". Not a knock on Spyderco, just a reality for my situation.