Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby TomAiello » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:48 am

I think we all need to realize that a pocket knife costing more than $20 or so is a luxury item for 99% of people living in the first world. If we're griping about prices, there are plenty of ways to get less expensive stuff that will do 95% of the work we're doing with our pocket jewelry. I buy pocket knives because I like them--not because I need them.

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby araneae » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:18 am

TomAiello wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:48 am
I think we all need to realize that a pocket knife costing more than $20 or so is a luxury item for 99% of people living in the first world. If we're griping about prices, there are plenty of ways to get less expensive stuff that will do 95% of the work we're doing with our pocket jewelry. I buy pocket knives because I like them--not because I need them.
Griping could also be considered valuable customer feedback for Spyderco. I buy Spydercos because I like them, not because I need them. I'd like to be able to keep buying them, therefore I posted my thoughts.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby VooDooChild » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:24 am

Eh, same with tools or anything else. Some people could care less about using cheap ones, some people want quality.

One of the biggest things people overlook is that spyderco has a realistic warranty as well. As in not just a warranty on paper. Its easy for others to claim a good warranty when they know nobody is going to make a warranty claim on a 20 something dollar product.

Also different materials and different construction drive price up. If spyderco stuck to the same 5 materials and same lock type/ construction for 90% of thier products we would save money, but I dont know if we would be happy. Like what I said earlier, seems like we are paying for really good diversity.

I also think part of the problem is the market as a whole. There are plenty of chinese knives that are not cheap or even much of a bargain. Seems as soon as one gets m390, g10/titanium, a warranty, and a halfway decent design they all go into the triple digit price range.
Last edited by VooDooChild on Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby Evil D » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:25 am

captnvegtble wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:19 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:06 am
I hate that we have to see this convo every year.
Just to be clear... the purpose of my starting this thread wasn't to re-hash this conversation, nor do I want to re-hash the conversation. Different people have different opinions on this matter, and that's fine. I was simply looking to get some confirmation about how we can expect Spyderco pricing to change next year so I (and others) can plan accordingly with our disposable income purchases.

It just always goes south. Lots of strong opinions on both sides and then it becomes a debate about capitalism and spirals out of control.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby kennethsime » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:37 am

I'll be the first to admit that I've always been confused by Spyderco's MAP policy, but for different reasons.

To my mind, MSRP and MAP should be pretty **** close together outside of promotion periods and closeout sales in order to protect margins for all involved.

Rather, it seems MSRP on Spydercos is something that's never actually charged, and every Knife dealer treats the MAP as the MSRP. This seems to make MSRP irrelevant.

Maybe I just don't get the knife market?
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby araneae » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:43 am

MSRP happens at little dealers like gun shops and Mom and Pop sporting goods stores. Anyone with a website going for a slice of the pie is at MAP with just a handful of exceptions charging MSRP.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby VooDooChild » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:48 am

kennethsime wrote: I'll be the first to admit that I've always been confused by Spyderco's MAP policy, but for different reasons.

To my mind, MSRP and MAP should be pretty **** close together outside of promotion periods and closeout sales in order to protect margins for all involved.

Rather, it seems MSRP on Spydercos is something that's never actually charged, and every Knife dealer treats the MAP as the MSRP. This seems to make MSRP irrelevant.

Maybe I just don't get the knife market?
I was actually wondering if the difference in those prices benefits the owner once an item has been discontinued. While the market always determines the price, there seems to be the possibility that once an item is no longer available, if somebody chose to sell it, then they can charge somewhere around the suggested retail price and have something to fall back on if they get accused of trying to overcharge.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby kennethsime » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:33 pm

araneae wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:43 am
MSRP happens at little dealers like gun shops and Mom and Pop sporting goods stores. Anyone with a website going for a slice of the pie is at MAP with just a handful of exceptions charging MSRP.
Totally understand that this is how it works, just don't understand the logic here on Spyderco or Dealer's part; just seems like a never-ending race to the bottom. Most premium brands I follow seem to use the MAP to protect the MSRP; for example, if you want a Patagonia fleece, you pay the Patagonia price, outside of sale periods and end of season stuff.

But again, different market. I'm sure the wide gap between MAP and MSRP does something beneficial for Spyderco, the dealers, or maybe the collectors, as mentioned by VooDooChild; I just don't know what exactly.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
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Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:56 pm

I’ll vote with my wallet. I am sure there will still be must have Spyderco knives but probably less than in years past. Partly due to my own value assessment, partly due to already having lots of knives and partly due to changing tastes.

My question would be, does map keep changing because it is working or because it isn’t working? I don’t really need to know but I do know how it has effected my own buying selections which is to basically make me more selective in my purchases which isn’t the worst thing.

Not much more to it than that. Spyderco is still my preferred knife manufacturer.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby sal » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm

Hi Kenneth.

MSRP is base line price from which discounts are measured. The year that we dropped MRP and just went with NET pricing, all of the dealers complained. They want to be able to say they're saving you this much money off of MSRP.

Hi Darby,

I don't think MAP will change from 30%. That seems to be the standard in the industry these days. I will say that MAP and not selling to Amazon has increased our dealer base and most are pleased with the business model. We still have some solutions to find with Europe and export to other countries.

FYI,

Our prices, as always are based on; costs (materials, labor, overhead) + profit = price. We keep our profit reasonable for success. I agree that wages are not growing as fast as manufacturing costs. That's a problem for the US economy and for our government to improve. That's why the low cost of goods manufactured n China are so desirable.

That's how China is planning on taking over the world economy. As their quality improves and their downplayed Yuan continues, it will only get worse. Unlike other developing nations, Like Japan for example, they value their money unfairly so they always have an advantage. That's what the tariffs are all about.

When we first began making knives in Japan, they were much cheaper. We sold Endura's at shows for $30 and Delica's for $25. (1990) The Japanese Yen was 2-1/2 to $1.00 and as the Yen got stronger, the costs for us went up. When the Yen was as strong as the Dollar, the wold market adjusted and Japan. like any fair nation competed in the marketplace. The Chinese Yuan is 12 to 1. You do the math.

sal

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby kennethsime » Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:07 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm
Hi Kenneth.

MSRP is base line price from which discounts are measured. The year that we dropped MSRP and just went with NET pricing, all of the dealers complained. They want to be able to say they're saving you this much money off of MSRP.

...

Our prices, as always are based on: costs (materials, labor, overhead) + profit = price.
Hey Sal,

I appreciate your thorough response. The bold section above is what I always emphasize whenever someone complains about cost.

If you don't to pay $200 for a knife, Spyderco sells plenty of $100 knives, and a few $30-50 knives. I appreciate that Spyderco offers a great value at so many different price points, and I truly enjoy using Spyderco knives more than any other. Even the Byrd knives are a pleasure to use.

At the gym I work at it's the same deal. Don't want to pay $75/mo? That's fine, there are plenty of other gyms around with a different business model, who charge more or less than we do. Most of the cheaper ones don't offer the same services we offer, so it'll be a different experience (mainly, no rock climbing). The cheaper ones didn't invest as much into their gym buildout, and don't invest as much into staffing and programming as we do. Either way, no one's driving Ferraris here.

I'm not sure I'll ever get the thing about the dealers wanting to always offer a discount, even when the MAP is effectively operating as the de facto MSRP. But again, I don't work in the knife industry anymore. I guess it works for this market in a way that just doesn't talk to me.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby araneae » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:06 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm

Hi Darby,

I don't think MAP will change from 30%. That seems to be the standard in the industry these days. I will say that MAP and not selling to Amazon has increased our dealer base and most are pleased with the business model. We still have some solutions to find with Europe and export to other countries.

sal
Sal, I guess I'm still lost on why dealers are getting a 10% bump in MAP over the current year if response has been good and dealer base is growing. If I'm dropping my purchase level because prices have increased disproportionate to wages and general inflation; and at least some portion of the knife buying base has also had to do so, at some point dealers have to be feeling it as will you. 10% seems like a fairly significant increase over the 2.1% US inflation rate. Dealers are the only winners in 2020... Or am I missing something?

PS I know none of this is really my business, but as I said before, I'd really love to keep buying Spydercos, but it gets harder every year.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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Just got:D'fly K390 ,GITD

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby jdw » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:24 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm
Hi Kenneth.

MSRP is base line price from which discounts are measured. The year that we dropped MRP and just went with NET pricing, all of the dealers complained. They want to be able to say they're saving you this much money off of MSRP.

Hi Darby,

I don't think MAP will change from 30%. That seems to be the standard in the industry these days. I will say that MAP and not selling to Amazon has increased our dealer base and most are pleased with the business model. We still have some solutions to find with Europe and export to other countries.

FYI,

Our prices, as always are based on; costs (materials, labor, overhead) + profit = price. We keep our profit reasonable for success. I agree that wages are not growing as fast as manufacturing costs. That's a problem for the US economy and for our government to improve. That's why the low cost of goods manufactured n China are so desirable.

That's how China is planning on taking over the world economy. As their quality improves and their downplayed Yuan continues, it will only get worse. Unlike other developing nations, Like Japan for example, they value their money unfairly so they always have an advantage. That's what the tariffs are all about.

When we first began making knives in Japan, they were much cheaper. We sold Endura's at shows for $30 and Delica's for $25. (1990) The Japanese Yen was 2-1/2 to $1.00 and as the Yen got stronger, the costs for us went up. When the Yen was as strong as the Dollar, the wold market adjusted and Japan. like any fair nation competed in the marketplace. The Chinese Yuan is 12 to 1. You do the math.

sal

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby James Y » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:18 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:14 am
phaust wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:27 pm
Sal popped in this BF thread on the topic

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/202 ... s.1698317/
Reading through just some of that thread, I can't believe the number of people saying "I love Spyderco, fully support the brand and it's the best, but I won't support it the prices keep going up."

Reality is that most Spydercos are a steal for the value they provide. How are you going to espouse your loyalty or love of a product, service, or company, and then decry them for charging a fair market rate? Some even threatened to withdraw their support if prices keep rising. What exactly did you want Spyderco to cheap out on in order to preserve last year's price? Materials, Q/A, or paying their employees a living wage? Because every one of these costs has likely increased for Spyderco this year.

I work for a gym, and we go through this about once/year when prices go up to reflect our increase in costs. It's funny how similar all the comments are.
Good points. And I’m pretty certain that Sal and Spyderco do NOT look forward to the necessary price increases, either. But some things must happen in order to keep up and survive.

The price increases probably won’t affect me much, because I don’t buy many knives anymore, anyway. I don’t snap up all the sprints, or try to get every model I like in all the different steels, or anything like that. However, I still think that the vast majority of Spyderco products are a bargain for what you get.

Jim

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby VooDooChild » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:19 am

Im just assuming sal saying they are keeping 99% of thier pricing for 2020 means the prices will stay the same for most of the catalog. Not sure how or which ones will not be but Im hoping thats the case.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby kennethsime » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:44 am

araneae wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:06 pm
Sal, I guess I'm still lost on why dealers are getting a 10% bump in MAP over the current year if response has been good and dealer base is growing. If I'm dropping my purchase level because prices have increased disproportionate to wages and general inflation; and at least some portion of the knife buying base has also had to do so, at some point dealers have to be feeling it as will you. 10% seems like a fairly significant increase over the 2.1% US inflation rate. Dealers are the only winners in 2020... Or am I missing something?

PS I know none of this is really my business, but as I said before, I'd really love to keep buying Spydercos, but it gets harder every year.
I obviously can't speak for Sal or anyone at Spyderco, but increasing the MAP to bring it more in line with the MSRP makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.

Also, it's worth noting that companies don't always increase prices along with the CPI inflation rate. For example, last year my company's labor budget doubled, mostly due to increases in state & local minimum wage ordinances. We also had to do some pretty serious facility maintenance that isn't part of our regular budget. Did our prices double? No, we didn't feel that was fair to pass all of that burden on to our customers. But this year our annual increase is definitely more than 2.1%, and we're going to have to keep making aggressive annual raises to keep up with costs for the foreseeable future.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green
MT27 Mule Team 27 Micro-Melt PD#1 Ranger Green | C36GPGR Military 204p Dark Green

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby RamZar » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:06 am

A $275.00 MSRP Spyderco Military Satin made in the U.S. which sells for a street price of $178.75 will soon sell for a street price of $192.50 which is a 7.7% increase for the consumer.
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby Pancake » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:18 am

I am going to say it for like 1000th time, but you US guys should really take a look at european prices.
For plain Jane Military, the lowest price I found is 191€, give or take 212 USD. Usually they are around 210€.....
It could be a lot worse, you could live in Europe 😂
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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby Albatross » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:46 am

The Deacon wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:02 am


I think a lot of it comes down to the difference between things we need, and things we merely want. There are rare exceptions, but the price of almost everything goes up from year to year. We can't really avoid it when our rent and renter's insurance, or our property taxes and homeowner's insurance, go up. We may be able to cut out some luxury items, but most increases in the cost of food and other household products are unavoidable. We may be able to cut down on pleasure driving, but fuel price increases are unavoidable for those who commute by car. On the other hand, things like gym memberships and the purchase of "grown up toys" like knives, guns, and watches are a lot easier to cut back on.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Like everything else in life, this is a matter of perspective. My views on this are the same as the flipper/limited run issues; most of the knives Spyderco sells, are not bought out of necessity, but out of curiosity(for the model, steel, or lock) or to line safes and drawers. These are, as you put it, "grown up toys", or luxury items. Whether it's flippers overcharging, limited runs selling out before everyone can get one, or Spyderco having to raise their prices, it's irrelevant, because these are non-essential goods. That's not to say it doesn't sting, but it's also not something I'll be losing sleep over.

We've been spoiled by the high quality, variety and low prices Spyderco offers, which has had an unfortunate side effect; we sometimes expect entirely too much, from a company that regularly bends over backwards for it's customers. Spyderco is an industry leader in fringe designs and steels, I think people forget that sometimes. Fortunately, the majority of this forum is filled with positivity toward the brand; the majority understand and support the price increase.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

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Re: Change in price of Spydercos in 2020?

Postby Mzen » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:42 am

sal wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm
We still have some solutions to find with Europe and export to other countries.
Any new information regarding that Europe bit? You should see eBay in Germany... Whenever anything Spyderco related shows up at a decent (meaning: not great) price it immediately evaporates as if it was a Cru-Wear Shaman haha and most of them aren't even legal to carry over here.

If you managed to find a way to lower the prices in Europe, people would snatch them up before they even made contact with the store shelves.


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