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Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:37 pm
by rivy
It seems with things like patents and copyrights, etc. that most intellectual property has a lifespan. The innovator should get a good chunk of time to captialize, brand, refine, take advantage of being first to market, etc. Then years later (not sure how many, should be what 10 or so on a patent?) they can expect the competition to come.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:05 pm
by Archimedes
I really like my new light. Great all around light.

Spyderco should make flashlights. I would love to see some real innovation.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:59 pm
by Skidoosh
Technology such as the internet has created a shift in how we as civilizations think and collaborate.

It used to be people thought in parallel, there was no overflow unless there was collaboration. If two people came up with a common idea it was either a coincidence or they were lead to common concepts. For instance the shape of a pyramid is a pretty common conclusion whether in Mayan Central America or Egyptian Egypt. Of course, conspiracy theorists will tell you otherwise.

Now with the internet we think it collective processes, we are able to collaborate in connectedness like never before. Its easy to have idea saturation and never realize where a concept came from. Pull up "pocket clips" on any search engine and see how many similarities you find. It is very easy to forget to attribute who started something; I don't argue that is appropriate or right but it is part of the new connected reality we live in. When pocket clips were new it was very easy to see Sal as the rightful originator. In a saturated market where clips become almost ubiquitous it is much more difficult to distinguish.

Then add to this cultural overlays of communal vs. individual or whatever Hofstede cultural model you want to and it gets interesting very quickly.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:03 am
by Surfingringo
The conversation is certainly complex and interesting enough when discussing something like pocket clips on knives and flashlights but if you want a real challenge then consider things like drug patents. If a company or individual comes up with a life saving drug (one that would cure cancer or heart disease lets say) are they entitled to prevent anyone else from copying that? At least for a certain amount of time? The idea of preventing anyone from copying it is intended to allow them to charge a massive premium for the drug. That premium will put the lifesaving drug out of the price range of MANY patients who will die without it. Is that morally wrong? Should society dictate that that drug is available to ALL people regardless of what that does to the “inventors” profits? If society were to take such steps would it disincentivize the inventors to the point that the drug would never exist and EVERYONE would die of the disease?

Maybe the solution is that we (as a culture or race) develop to the point that we are willing to use all of our intelligence, spirit and will to design a drug that will help our fellow man without the need for material or monetary incentive. Maybe we will evolve to that point at some time in the future. If we do, should the same thinking be applied to everything else like the songs we write and the pocket clips we invent? Or should this type of thinking be reserved for ideas and inventions that are truly life altering? If the latter, then who gets to decide what’s important enough that it has to be shared freely and what’s not? Good topic. Complex stuff.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:14 am
by standy99
I think Sal,s response to a post about not making deep carry clips to not step on the toes of the smaller players that already made them convinced me that Spyderco was a brand I wanted to be aligned with.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:20 am
by Doc Dan
I don’t know about manufacturing. All I can relate to his research and writing. If someone comes up with a good idea and you want to use it then you have to acknowledge where you got the idea from. So at least this company should have said that they use a Sal Glesser inspired clip. Give credit where credit is due. Of course then they might have to pay royalties. Still it would be better to acknowledge the work someone else has done that to take it and imply that it is your own.

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:23 am
by ChrisinHove
Surfingringo wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:03 am
The conversation is certainly complex and interesting enough .....
The way patent law has developed means that there is a protected period, when market forces allow costs of an innovation to be recouped and profit made.

Similarly, the decision whether jurisdictions appropriate by licence or nationalisation, drugs, treatments or healthcare as a whole, is a trade-off between up front costs and all the monetary and less tangible but very popular benefits to their population (those that use it, anyway, at very least). Politics again!

Re: designs - evolution - lifting

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:30 pm
by Ankerson
sal wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:50 am
This is mostly for discussion as I'm interested in your opinions on the subject.

I just purchased a Surefire "Stlileto". I like Surefire as they are tough, bright, made in the USA and they are passionate about their products, which I always respect. I've never liked their clips and felt that their ergos could improve, but ergos are very difficult on a torch. The new model is very bright, a plus, and is rechargeable, another plus, and it offers multiple strengths, which is important for some. . It also has a much improved clip, which was lifted from my hourglass clip design which took me many years to refine to where it is now. I realize that designs refine, improve and evolve and I prefer the function of their new clip.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is. I was curious as to what you thought about "lifting" designs from other companies?

When I first invented the pocket clip for knives, (1980) only 3 companies used the idea and paid us a royalty. Benchmade, Gerber and Cold Steel. Although virtually every knife company in the world has used or now offers a pocket clip on their knives.



Hi Sal,

I have a Surefire EDCL2-T, great light, VERY bright, 1,200 Lumens on high.

Makes my full sized Maglite ML300LX look weak.. That's a 3D... That's saying a lot... As it's 625 Lumens and a full sized light.