blues wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:07 amYears ago I used to get pretty worked up about plagiarism in the knife world, especially when it came to recognizable work like Fred Perrin's "La Griffe" among others.
I had a long talk about the subject with the late Kit Carson years ago and he basically said that there was nothing new under the sun and that we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. (Carson was widely recognized for the "flipper".)
I can see both points of view...but I admire most those who do the right thing when no one is looking, and pay homage with respect, if not treasure.
I agree. The very least someone can do is give some acknowledgement where it is due. I would have no problem doing that, if I were ever in that position. A rising tide raises all boats, as they say.blues wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:07 amYears ago I used to get pretty worked up about plagiarism in the knife world, especially when it came to recognizable work like Fred Perrin's "La Griffe" among others.
I had a long talk about the subject with the late Kit Carson years ago and he basically said that there was nothing new under the sun and that we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. (Carson was widely recognized for the "flipper".)
I can see both points of view...but I admire most those who do the right thing when no one is looking, and pay homage with respect, if not treasure.
sal wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:25 amHi Jim, Deacon,
I don't think it's a big deal and not worth talking to anyone. And as Paul mentioned, clips have been around since before I was born. I just thought it would make interesting conversation. Sometimes it's a matter of degree.
Hey Darby,
I think that Eric, Gail and I are doing OK, but we also work very hard. I think the system is as fair as it can be and I would rather see a good idea shared by all rather than ***** about "I, Me Mine" or have it buried. We used Al Mar's front lock, but we also asked him first. But Al was a friend of mine. We are also fortunate in that we continue to innovate. Most are not able to continually innovate. I don't think this discussion will change anything. I was just curious as to your thoughts. We have some very bright people that visit here and their thoughts are always valuable.
Where we have legal protection in the way of patents or trademarks, we litigate hard.
Hi Sumdumguy,
We teach by example and your doing the right thing pays in good thoughts, Karma, and who knows what else. Even though it took extra time, it was a good example, in my opinion. Gail and I always try to do the right thing and we have been quite fortunate in our lives. Don't know what it is; Karma, God, etc., but We say "It''s too much luck to be luck".
Hi, Koenigsegg,
There was no legal protection on the design so any "getting my share" would not be realistic. There are many people in this world and many of them come up with good ideas. That's how humans progress and why we are special. As mentioned, we stand on the shoulders of others which permits us to see farther.
sal
In my opinion lifting designs from other companies is by the very phrase "Lifting" damning and pretty much says it all, there are things that one should do and try there very best To Do and then there are things that are Not To Do. Lifting another companies design falls squarely into the Not To Do category.sal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:50 amThis is mostly for discussion as I'm interested in your opinions on the subject.
I just purchased a Surefire "Stlileto". I like Surefire as they are tough, bright, made in the USA and they are passionate about their products, which I always respect. I've never liked their clips and felt that their ergos could improve, but ergos are very difficult on a torch. The new model is very bright, a plus, and is rechargeable, another plus, and it offers multiple strengths, which is important for some. . It also has a much improved clip, which was lifted from my hourglass clip design which took me many years to refine to where it is now. I realize that designs refine, improve and evolve and I prefer the function of their new clip.
I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is. I was curious as to what you thought about "lifting" designs from other companies?
When I first invented the pocket clip for knives, (1980) only 3 companies used the idea and paid us a royalty. Benchmade, Gerber and Cold Steel. Although virtually every knife company in the world has used or now offers a pocket clip on their knives.
Thoughts?
sal
Well then since you are glad they are using it then how can I feel defensive for you
Surfingringo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:42 pmIt’s an interesting topic but not such a simple one. A few years ago someone got the idea that a round piece of stone would roll better than any other shape. Someone else was bright enough to use that as a wheel for supporting and moving larger objects. It was a good idea and they certainly deserved a back pat and the largest cut of the saber tooth steak at dinner time but how much control should they have had over who could use a wheel? And for how long?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against the idea of intellectual property...at all! I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Not allowing one to profit for their thoughts and inventions stifles progress. But so does giving every person complete “ownership” of anything they might come up with. I think there is a proper balance to be found and I believe that US law does a pretty good job of maintaining that balance.
As far as how I handle the subject personally, I like thinking and designing and inventing, whether it’s knives or music or just my own philosophies. I do it because I was created to do it, not to get rich or to be held in high esteem by my fellow man. If I can make a few bucks and enrich a few lives along the way then so much the better but I won’t lose any sleep if someone else runs with my ideas and makes a bigger profit from them than I do. Ultimately I think I’m too lazy to get resentful over someone stealing an idea. Take it. I’ve got more. Life on this planet is very very short and I have plenty of ideas to see me through. There is no greater waste of time and energy than harboring resentment and at the end of the day, things like material wealth and “legacy” matter very little to me.
Hi Sal,sal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:32 pmHi VooDooChild,
I agree and that's why I said it's not good or bad. The world may need an idea for the betterment of humanity. I'm not complaining, just gathering opinions. There are many countries like China that do not think an idea should be anything but public from the git-go. The USA is one of the countries that offers protection in the way of patents, trademarks and copyright. I would guess that is because of Capitalism in the US where protection helps the idea maker verses Communism where everything is shared.
When Eric and I were visiting factories in China, the makers were sincerely thanking us for creating such good designs that they could use to make money to feed their families.
sal
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