Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
- steelcity16
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
Where does AEB-L stack against Elmax, CPM-154, and S45VN as far as a "tough" stainless blade?
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- bearfacedkiller
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
Elmax got a bad name early on kind of like S30V did. There is quite a bit of drama around the whole ordeal and some of the myths/lies that were circulated then still persist today. It was ZTs go to steel and I think they moved away from it partly due to consumer perception. Now it has been passed over by other steels and is just getting left behind. It isn’t great and it isn’t bad. It is just another average stainless steel by today’s standards.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
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- Deadboxhero
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
Cost and availability more than anything.bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:54 pmElmax got a bad name early on kind of like S30V did. There is quite a bit of drama around the whole ordeal and some of the myths/lies that were circulated then still persist today. It was ZTs go to steel and I think they moved away from it partly due to consumer perception. Now it has been passed over by other steels and is just getting left behind. It isn’t great and it isn’t bad. It is just another average stainless steel by today’s standards.
Just like why cold steel switched from xhp to s35vn.
These companies buy by the lbs/kg and need lots of it. If the schedule of getting the steel doesn't meet the production schedule than that is problematic.
Elmax costs more per lbs/kg and is an import, and is less available massive quantities compared to S30v/s35vn so it's fairly straightforward why we don't see much here in the US.
Meanwhile in Europe, there is a thread like this one in another language asking about why they don't see more Crucible Brand CPM stainless Steels xD
- bearfacedkiller
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I agree that importing Elmax is a factor but there doesn’t seem to be much of an issue with availability of M390 so I think that there are also other factors at play.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 pmCost and availability more than anything.bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:54 pmElmax got a bad name early on kind of like S30V did. There is quite a bit of drama around the whole ordeal and some of the myths/lies that were circulated then still persist today. It was ZTs go to steel and I think they moved away from it partly due to consumer perception. Now it has been passed over by other steels and is just getting left behind. It isn’t great and it isn’t bad. It is just another average stainless steel by today’s standards.
Just like why cold steel switched from xhp to s35vn.
These companies buy by the lbs/kg and need lots of it. If the schedule of getting the steel doesn't meet the production schedule than that is problematic.
Elmax costs more per lbs/kg and is an import, and is less available massive quantities compared to S30v/s35vn so it's fairly straightforward why we don't see much here in the US.
Meanwhile in Europe, there is a thread like this one in another language asking about why they don't see more Crucible Brand CPM stainless Steels xD
Bladeforums has many many threads going back years about Elmax and ZT and even now in 2019 a thread pops up now and again asking the same old questions. Much like S30V it had/has a stigma that just doesn’t seem to fade away. Again, I don’t think this is the only reason but I just wanted to add another piece of the puzzle.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I don't have any Elmax and would like to get some. I've been waiting for a second release of the BBS Elmax PM2. I would jump on a Delica Elmax; would have to get two of these.
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
Elmax is a good steel, but I like M390 better. I wouldn't pay a tariff premium for either since domestically produced CPM 20CV and CTS 204P are available.
I would pay a premium for a Sage 2 Salt with a Vanax Blade. A Native 5 Salt with fluted Ti handles and Vanax blade would be a neat alternative. I'd settle for Native 5 LW Salt with a Vanax blade and still pay a premium for that.
I would pay a premium for a Sage 2 Salt with a Vanax Blade. A Native 5 Salt with fluted Ti handles and Vanax blade would be a neat alternative. I'd settle for Native 5 LW Salt with a Vanax blade and still pay a premium for that.
- Doc Dan
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I would like an Urban in Elmax, but truthfully the only thing this steel has going for it is a cool moniker.
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Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I think the “grass is greener” adage applies here. Whether Elmax is great or not, just wanting and having it is enough for the steel-curious.
But, because the steel is so indifferent, Elmax PM2 owners ought to be dumping theirs...
But, because the steel is so indifferent, Elmax PM2 owners ought to be dumping theirs...
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
That model was a British Blades-exclusive (members-only exclusive, if I’m not mistaken). I was lucky to find a Collectors Club version; I have yet to see a non-CC version on the market...
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:19 pmI agree that importing Elmax is a factor but there doesn’t seem to be much of an issue with availability of M390 so I think that there are also other factors at play.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 pmCost and availability more than anything.bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:54 pmElmax got a bad name early on kind of like S30V did. There is quite a bit of drama around the whole ordeal and some of the myths/lies that were circulated then still persist today. It was ZTs go to steel and I think they moved away from it partly due to consumer perception. Now it has been passed over by other steels and is just getting left behind. It isn’t great and it isn’t bad. It is just another average stainless steel by today’s standards.
Just like why cold steel switched from xhp to s35vn.
These companies buy by the lbs/kg and need lots of it. If the schedule of getting the steel doesn't meet the production schedule than that is problematic.
Elmax costs more per lbs/kg and is an import, and is less available massive quantities compared to S30v/s35vn so it's fairly straightforward why we don't see much here in the US.
Meanwhile in Europe, there is a thread like this one in another language asking about why they don't see more Crucible Brand CPM stainless Steels xD
Bladeforums has many many threads going back years about Elmax and ZT and even now in 2019 a thread pops up now and again asking the same old questions. Much like S30V it had/has a stigma that just doesn’t seem to fade away. Again, I don’t think this is the only reason but I just wanted to add another piece of the puzzle.
Was the same story as S30V, issues with the HT in some production knives until they got it nailed down.
Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I remember seeing them on eBay for a while. Someone had a bunch on there--maybe British Blades ended up with extras?
Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
In my opinion, there are better steels, BUT everyone has different preferences, and for some, Elmax is that perfect, "Goldilocks" steel. To each their own.
- Doc Dan
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I see wrdwght beat me to it. I would not mind at all to have a Sprint Run for the rest of us. Of course M390 would be even better.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)
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Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I recently started carrying a ZT knife with Elmax, I like it quite a bit. Some of the qualities I like, keen edge, takes a polish, good edge stability I also find in steels like CTS-XHP and CPM-20CV or M390. With other steels out there I like better (K390) I would not gravitate to elmax because of the steel alone but I would not shy away from it either.
I have a question about the "toughness" of elmax. I thought I have seen studies that its impact toughness is not much higher than D2. I don't want to perpetuate myths but I also have not found much info.
I have a question about the "toughness" of elmax. I thought I have seen studies that its impact toughness is not much higher than D2. I don't want to perpetuate myths but I also have not found much info.
- jasonstone20
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
I wonder which mid-high carbide steel (CPM 154 CM, CTS XHP, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, ELMAX) is the easiest steel to get a good production HT of around 60-62 HRC, closer to 61-62HRC if possible.
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--Shawn Houston
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
"Life is GOOD!"
--Stefan Wolf, May his memory be a blessing
--Ken Schwartz, May his memory be a blessing
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
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- jasonstone20
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
AEB-L is far tougher than any of those steels you listed, since it has a lower carbide volume, while the others have a pretty high carbide volume. Toughness is overrated as a necessary quality for a pocket knife.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:52 pmWhere does AEB-L stack against Elmax, CPM-154, and S45VN as far as a "tough" stainless blade?
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
"Life is GOOD!"
--Stefan Wolf, May his memory be a blessing
--Ken Schwartz, May his memory be a blessing
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
--Shawn Houston
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
"Life is GOOD!"
--Stefan Wolf, May his memory be a blessing
--Ken Schwartz, May his memory be a blessing
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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Re: Why the lack of Elmax options -- are any on the horizon?
Same here. I have a few small fixed blades in Elmax and I really like the edge retention on them but I feel like that scratches my Elmax itch just fine and wouldn't go chasing a folder or even a larger fixie in that steel. It's funny how you can start to categorize specific steels as belonging to particular knife categories based solely on your own usage patterns.olywa wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:42 amI feel the love for Elmax in small to medium fixed blades. It's been an outstanding performer for me in those configurations. Takes a screaming sharp edge without too much effort and holds it well. My latest is a Bradford Guardian 4.5 FFG and it really hits the sweet spot for a general purpose woods/camping/outdoor knife. Don't know that I'd go out of my way for it in a folder though. There's plenty of other choices that work well.