H-1 is subpar???

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
JD Spydo
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm

I've been told by two trusted friends of mine that the Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife blade is not even as good as H-1 as far as edge holding is concerned.

It's been a long time ago going back to about 2001-2002. Benchmade was actually the first commercial knife company I know of that made a knife with H-1. It was a dive knife that they had for some time. It was the model "100SH20". The first year it was manufactured they used H-1>> it wasn't long until they changed the blade steel in that model to X-15 TN stainless. I don't think it took them very long to see the weakness aspects of H-1 for plain edged uses.

Spyderco on the other hand implemented it in many of their serrated/Spyderedged units. Oddly enough they discovered that in spite of the fact that H-1 in PE wasn't that great but that H-1 in a serrated edge was great for some strange reason.>> the rest is history as they say.

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VooDooChild
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby VooDooChild » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:45 pm

Yeah... H1 was introduced to the market by bechmade. I also have a bit of a conspiracy theory about that. Benchmade, which was the first company to introduce h1, suddenly stopped when spyderco decided they wanted it, and right around the same time, benchmade offered the griptilian with a spyderco round hole. No clue but if I had to guess a gentlemans agreement was met.

It doesnt really matter. The whole thing with dendritic cobalt is that it doesnt have the strength of steel. You probably shouldnt pry with it.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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standy99
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby standy99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:57 am


Where you fishing at?
:D
Northern Territory, Australia
Crocodile central to most in Aus ;)
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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spoonrobot
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby spoonrobot » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:20 pm

I've found H1 to work pretty well. I'm not a fisherman but I have occasion to cut a lot of cardboard, this was ~200 feet of cutting. Took about 30 minutes and the knife would still barely shave with moderate pressure. I like H1, I think it performs well in the EDC role. It holds it's edge for a surprisingly long time based on how fast and easy it is to restore.

Image

That said, I've had occasion to cut used rope and other outdoor material and I've yet to find a blade that holds it's edge well cutting silica impregnated material.

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby The Meat man » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:36 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm
I've been told by two trusted friends of mine that the Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife blade is not even as good as H-1 as far as edge holding is concerned...

Do you mean PE H-1 or Serrated H-1? If the former I'd be inclined to disagree. I owned a Boye Cobalt Folder for awhile and did a lot of testing with it. It's definitely strange stuff, quite different from steel and a bit difficult to directly compare to steel.
I tested it once cutting thick polypropylene rope, against VG-10 and CPM M4. It blew the VG-10 out of the water, and followed close behind the CPM M4. (With the same edge geometry and level of sharpness.)

Now the BDC didn't feel as sharp as the CPM M4 and might not have been as sharp slicing paper, but it just kept cutting on the rope. The hype, to some extent, is true.

Oh and I also did a lot of hardwood carving and whittling and it did fine. I used it as I would've any steel knife and never had issues with the edge being brittle.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby James Y » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:59 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:36 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm
I've been told by two trusted friends of mine that the Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife blade is not even as good as H-1 as far as edge holding is concerned...

Do you mean PE H-1 or Serrated H-1? If the former I'd be inclined to disagree. I owned a Boye Cobalt Folder for awhile and did a lot of testing with it. It's definitely strange stuff, quite different from steel and a bit difficult to directly compare to steel.
I tested it once cutting thick polypropylene rope, against VG-10 and CPM M4. It blew the VG-10 out of the water, and followed close behind the CPM M4. (With the same edge geometry and level of sharpness.)

Now the BDC didn't feel as sharp as the CPM M4 and might not have been as sharp slicing paper, but it just kept cutting on the rope. The hype, to some extent, is true.

Oh and I also did a lot of hardwood carving and whittling and it did fine. I used it as I would've any steel knife and never had issues with the edge being brittle.
I have two Boye folders; one partially-serrated spear point and one serrated sheepsfoot. They are great at cutting rope, and don’t bind due to the shallow, wavy serration pattern. And it’s true that they don’t feel very sharp, but cut rope extremely well.

However, for general utility, I prefer several of the SE Salt models. IMO, for all-around use, they work better for me than the Boye folders. The Salts also have better open/close action, and the back locks feel more solid than on the Boye folders. I do like the marlin spike on the Boye folders a lot. The Boye folders’ blades have a fairly thick flat saber grind, and the edge bevels can come a bit obtuse out of the box. They are also pretty pricey. But I’ve never felt the blades were brittle. Anyway, you wouldn’t want to twist or pry with any blade, whether Boye Dendritic Cobalt, H1, VG-10, LC200N or not.

Jim

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby The Meat man » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:31 pm

James Y wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:59 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:36 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm
I've been told by two trusted friends of mine that the Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife blade is not even as good as H-1 as far as edge holding is concerned...

Do you mean PE H-1 or Serrated H-1? If the former I'd be inclined to disagree. I owned a Boye Cobalt Folder for awhile and did a lot of testing with it. It's definitely strange stuff, quite different from steel and a bit difficult to directly compare to steel.
I tested it once cutting thick polypropylene rope, against VG-10 and CPM M4. It blew the VG-10 out of the water, and followed close behind the CPM M4. (With the same edge geometry and level of sharpness.)

Now the BDC didn't feel as sharp as the CPM M4 and might not have been as sharp slicing paper, but it just kept cutting on the rope. The hype, to some extent, is true.

Oh and I also did a lot of hardwood carving and whittling and it did fine. I used it as I would've any steel knife and never had issues with the edge being brittle.
... The Salts also have better open/close action, and the back locks feel more solid than on the Boye folders. I do like the marlin spike on the Boye folders a lot. The Boye folders’ blades have a fairly thick flat saber grind, and the edge bevels can come a bit obtuse out of the box. They are also pretty pricey. But I’ve never felt the blades were brittle. Anyway, you wouldn’t want to twist or pry with any blade, whether Boye Dendritic Cobalt, H1, VG-10, LC200N or not.

Jim
I agree. On mine the lock spring seemed sluggish and I really wish the blade had a thinner, FFG profile.
If Boye would tweak the design for stronger self-close and snappier lockup, as well as lengthen the blade to 3.5" and FFG, it would be very hard to resist. Especially with that great marlinspike.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby James Y » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:27 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:31 pm
James Y wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:59 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:36 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm
I've been told by two trusted friends of mine that the Boye Dendritic Cobalt knife blade is not even as good as H-1 as far as edge holding is concerned...

Do you mean PE H-1 or Serrated H-1? If the former I'd be inclined to disagree. I owned a Boye Cobalt Folder for awhile and did a lot of testing with it. It's definitely strange stuff, quite different from steel and a bit difficult to directly compare to steel.
I tested it once cutting thick polypropylene rope, against VG-10 and CPM M4. It blew the VG-10 out of the water, and followed close behind the CPM M4. (With the same edge geometry and level of sharpness.)

Now the BDC didn't feel as sharp as the CPM M4 and might not have been as sharp slicing paper, but it just kept cutting on the rope. The hype, to some extent, is true.

Oh and I also did a lot of hardwood carving and whittling and it did fine. I used it as I would've any steel knife and never had issues with the edge being brittle.
... The Salts also have better open/close action, and the back locks feel more solid than on the Boye folders. I do like the marlin spike on the Boye folders a lot. The Boye folders’ blades have a fairly thick flat saber grind, and the edge bevels can come a bit obtuse out of the box. They are also pretty pricey. But I’ve never felt the blades were brittle. Anyway, you wouldn’t want to twist or pry with any blade, whether Boye Dendritic Cobalt, H1, VG-10, LC200N or not.

Jim
I agree. On mine the lock spring seemed sluggish and I really wish the blade had a thinner, FFG profile.
If Boye would tweak the design for stronger self-close and snappier lockup, as well as lengthen the blade to 3.5" and FFG, it would be very hard to resist. Especially with that great marlinspike.
Agreed. If Boye did all that with the design it would be better than good; it would be outstanding. And Boyd’s marlin spike feature is a work of genius. I doubt he’ll ever change his design, though, unless it’s of his own choosing.

Jim

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby wankywank » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:38 pm

Wow. Thanks for all the input folks. Yup. ya caught my handle there.

I have no desire to spend any real money on serrated blades. I do the $7 Victorynox for that, those tiny bastards will cut through hawsers (big friggin ropes) the size of your forearm in miliseconds. Life savers is what they are. If you need a serrated blade to cut rope, you got bigger problems on hand.

I use a regular smooth blade for most things. Thats what I want for a folding knife.

It's now about 6 months since my OP - I still have and regularly carry this H1 pos knife. I hate it more than ever - and I still use it almost everyday.

I've put a different bevel on it twice now, still can't get it anywhere to decent - and dont put the hose on me here, I know a thing or two about keeping blades sharp. If you think that because H1 steel can bend at 90 degrees makes it "strong" thats a poor definition. That just means it's flexible, we don't use stainless steel hardware aboard the boats (unless your a yachtie) because Stainless is TOO strong, it won't bend, it just breaks on you. Mild steel will bend and give slowly = much safer. This is why I like carbon steel, and one of the reasons I was drawn to the idea of H1

for sharpening: I'll get this friggin thing perfect, then I'll cut a few pieces of rope or whatever and soon enough I find myself desperately sawing away, much to my embarrassment, infront of the shipmates, who give me crap about not keeping my knife sharp. It's this terrible H1 steel.

Also....I don't like how the safety is high on the handle (I was working the knife hard once, and it snapped shut on me, had to get stitches)

Thing is... my Scandinavian grind, carbon steel, $10 Hultafor fixed blade is way better steel than this expensive "salt" knife. Holds the edge much longer, gets sharper quicker and friggin does what I need it to do. But it doesnt solve the fact that I want a good, hard-working, lightweight pocket knife.

I dont care if it stains. Aesthetics are for the city folk. I just want it to work. This is the most expensive and crappiest knife I've ever owned.

BUT I do really like the overall spyderco design. And I might give them another chance. I like how its a big blade, but very lightweight build. I like how the handle comes in yellow and is hard to loose. I just HATE the steel, and would like it if the safety was lower on the handle.

Not really into those myerchin knifes. Too bulky.

So.... any suggestions? I don't know much about steel specs.

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VooDooChild
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby VooDooChild » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:17 am

My suggestion is to listen to whats been said.

I love spydercos salt series but I agree plain edge h1 is not great.

Serrated h1 is really good. You SHOULD have gotten a serrated pacific salt. If you dont like serrated edges then I dont reccomend h1 steel.

It also sounds like you prioritize edge holding over corrosion resistance. Then you should not have gotten h1. It is all about never rusting.

Look, I could suggest you try lc200n, but frankly it seems like vg10 or any carbon steel will work for you. If you are going to go carbon steel then there are cheap knives out there that will work great.

I highly reccomend a serrated pacific salt. As many here will tell you spydercos serrations are on a different level.

Also, Spydercos salt series is all about not rusting/low maintenance. If you get h1 or lc200n in plain edge, then you are sacrificing edge holding in order to accomplish this, at least compared to a carbon steel.

Everybody will tell you to either get h1 in serrated edge or to pass on it. So you can try that, or you can change steels. But you are going to keep having the same problems, and same complaints.

I honestly think you bought the wrong product for your needs. Theres a lot of good advice here. You can take it, or you can keep complaining that you are trying to use the wrong tool for the wrong job. I dont have much sympathy for the later.

Try h1 in serrated edge or switch steels. Thats all there is to it.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Haunted House
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby Haunted House » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:26 am

I would definitely look at the Native 5 Salt (it uses LC200N steel instead of H-1). Similar size, same yellow handle, Much better steel imo.
That’s the knife I immediately thought of when I read your first post. They come in both plain edge & serrated.

If you don’t care about it being stainless, there’s a BUNCH of awesome steels that will hold an edge 10x longer.
Steels like Maxamet, k390, Rex 45, etc.
S90v & S110v will be mostly stainless as well.
Last edited by Haunted House on Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby prndltech » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:27 am

How about a s110v Military?!
- Shannon

wankywank
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby wankywank » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:07 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:17 am
I honestly think you bought the wrong product for your needs. Theres a lot of good advice here. You can take it, or you can keep complaining that you are trying to use the wrong tool for the wrong job. I dont have much sympathy for the later.

Try h1 in serrated edge or switch steels. Thats all there is to it.
Kind of you to snark on me VooDoo.

I use knifes everyday, nearly every hour, for mundane things and in life or death situations with heavy machinery and shipmates on the line. You shouldn't crap on me for trying to find a better one.

If they sell a knife designed for use in the maritime environment, well it better damned well hold up, as knifes to people like me are as good as seatbelts to people like you. I didn't buy it for my collection or so I could post cute pictures of it on social media next to my ray-bands on a beach. Knifes are tools. I use em as such. They work good or they dont. Complaint or input. If I bought the wrong tool for cutting things, then why does Spyderco make and sell it???

Anyway.....thanks Haunted... I'll look into those steels. At this point I just want an edge that sharpens well and doesn't go full blunt after 3 good uses. I don't care if it tarnishes. Everything rusts out here anyway.

I'm here because I like the design, just not the steel. I'm hesitant to waste my money on another Spyderco without getting good input on steel, because the company advertised their product poorly.

Does anyone know any good resource on info about different steel specs?

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby The Meat man » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:56 am

wankywank wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:38 pm
So.... any suggestions? I don't know much about steel specs.
How much do you care about corrosion? It might not be a big problem on a fixed blade, but it could cause lots of issues in a folder.

Do you have any preferred lock mechanism?

Any blade length limits or preferences?
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby James Y » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:06 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:17 am
My suggestion is to listen to whats been said.

I love spydercos salt series but I agree plain edge h1 is not great.

Serrated h1 is really good. You SHOULD have gotten a serrated pacific salt. If you dont like serrated edges then I dont reccomend h1 steel.

It also sounds like you prioritize edge holding over corrosion resistance. Then you should not have gotten h1. It is all about never rusting.

Look, I could suggest you try lc200n, but frankly it seems like vg10 or any carbon steel will work for you. If you are going to go carbon steel then there are cheap knives out there that will work great.

I highly reccomend a serrated pacific salt. As many here will tell you spydercos serrations are on a different level.

Also, Spydercos salt series is all about not rusting/low maintenance. If you get h1 or lc200n in plain edge, then you are sacrificing edge holding in order to accomplish this, at least compared to a carbon steel.

Everybody will tell you to either get h1 in serrated edge or to pass on it. So you can try that, or you can change steels. But you are going to keep having the same problems, and same complaints.

I honestly think you bought the wrong product for your needs. Theres a lot of good advice here. You can take it, or you can keep complaining that you are trying to use the wrong tool for the wrong job. I dont have much sympathy for the later.

Try h1 in serrated edge or switch steels. Thats all there is to it.
^^What VooDooChild said.

Jim

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VooDooChild
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby VooDooChild » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:50 am

wankywank wrote: Kind of you to snark on me VooDoo.

I use knifes everyday, nearly every hour, for mundane things and in life or death situations with heavy machinery and shipmates on the line. You shouldn't crap on me for trying to find a better one.

If they sell a knife designed for use in the maritime environment, well it better damned well hold up, as knifes to people like me are as good as seatbelts to people like you. I didn't buy it for my collection or so I could post cute pictures of it on social media next to my ray-bands on a beach. Knifes are tools. I use em as such. They work good or they dont. Complaint or input. If I bought the wrong tool for cutting things, then why does Spyderco make and sell it???

Anyway.....thanks Haunted... I'll look into those steels. At this point I just want an edge that sharpens well and doesn't go full blunt after 3 good uses. I don't care if it tarnishes. Everything rusts out here anyway.

I'm here because I like the design, just not the steel. I'm hesitant to waste my money on another Spyderco without getting good input on steel, because the company advertised their product poorly.

Does anyone know any good resource on info about different steel specs?
I dont know you, so I have no reason to be mean to you. But Im also not going to spare your feelings.

Your cutting needs have exceeded what can be expected from plain edge h1. Thats all there is to it. At this point the options left are to give serrated edge a shot or switch steels. That is the solution to your problem

Are we going to be back at this same problem again in 6 months?

Plain edge h1 isnt good enough for you. I understand. I also dont know why spyderco offers it but I guess some people really like it. I have used a lot of spydercos salt series for a long time, and all of my h1 is serrated with the exception of one knife.

While I do have a collection at this point, I have also used my knives hard, for years, especially my salts. Also in situations where peoples lives can be on the line.

Im not attacking you. Im not crapping on you for trying to find a better one. It seems like 6 months ago you knew plain edge h1 wasnt going to cut it. Now you definitely know that its not meeting your needs. So... ?
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

Sumdumguy
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:54 am

You need LC200N, ya wanker.

The Caribbean would be my choice.

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sal
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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby sal » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:22 pm

Hi WankyWank,

First, I would like to say that there are many people using our H1 both plain and serrated and have been for many years and they are satisfied with the product. To say this is somehow Spyderco's failing is not entirely true.

Secondly, how do you sharpen your knives?

And 3, as suggested, serrated H1 will keep an edge longer than just about any other steel.

sal

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby The Meat man » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:32 pm

wankywank wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:07 am

Does anyone know any good resource on info about different steel specs?
Check out https://knifesteelnerds.com/ for tons of great information on different knife steels. It's run by a PhD Metallurgist who also is a member here. (Larrin)

I just thought of a great Spyderco knife you should check out - the ZDP-189 Endura. It has basically the same dimensions as the Pacific Salt but in a very wear resistant steel. And while ZDP-189 isn't super stainless, it's going to be a lot better than your carbon steels.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Re: H-1 is subpar???

Postby ladybug93 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:46 pm

wankywank wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:07 am
VooDooChild wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:17 am
I honestly think you bought the wrong product for your needs. Theres a lot of good advice here. You can take it, or you can keep complaining that you are trying to use the wrong tool for the wrong job. I dont have much sympathy for the later.

Try h1 in serrated edge or switch steels. Thats all there is to it.
Kind of you to snark on me VooDoo.

I use knifes everyday, nearly every hour, for mundane things and in life or death situations with heavy machinery and shipmates on the line. You shouldn't crap on me for trying to find a better one.

If they sell a knife designed for use in the maritime environment, well it better damned well hold up, as knifes to people like me are as good as seatbelts to people like you. I didn't buy it for my collection or so I could post cute pictures of it on social media next to my ray-bands on a beach. Knifes are tools. I use em as such. They work good or they dont. Complaint or input. If I bought the wrong tool for cutting things, then why does Spyderco make and sell it???

Anyway.....thanks Haunted... I'll look into those steels. At this point I just want an edge that sharpens well and doesn't go full blunt after 3 good uses. I don't care if it tarnishes. Everything rusts out here anyway.

I'm here because I like the design, just not the steel. I'm hesitant to waste my money on another Spyderco without getting good input on steel, because the company advertised their product poorly.

Does anyone know any good resource on info about different steel specs?
he tried to help you six months ago and he’s trying to help you again, despite the fact that you made zero effort to actually research the product you bought ahead of time, didn’t listen six months ago, and likely will continue the trend.

maybe come to the forum with a little bit of humility instead of kicking the door in and pointing fingers and talking down to everyone. everyone here has been really kind and helpful to you. take the advice or don’t, but your poor attitude isn’t going to make your knife hold an edge any longer.


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