Going against the grain

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Albatross
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Going against the grain

Postby Albatross » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:15 am

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't like the Para 3 lightweight. The handle is more contoured than the G10 variant, the ones I've handled had perfect action, and the pocket clip is in a better spot. The one issue that bugs me to no end, and has caused me to stop carrying the knife, is the balance, or lack thereof. Since the handle is so light, the knife feels blade heavy and less nimble than the G10 versions. Sometimes a heavier knife can offer better control, and the Para 3 is a great demonstration of this.

Here's another potential disappointment for some; I have fallen out of love with the compression lock and the CBBL. I came to realize that I treated my "fidget-friendly" knives as toys and found myself obsessing over action, new models with those locks, new steels in those models, or new colors. I began carrying a P4 G10 (Delica Pakkawood Hap40 for traveling, when a 3" limit is imposed) and haven't looked back.

What are your "against the grain" thoughts, beliefs, or preferences?

This is unrelated, bonus rambling, but when taking a step back, the idea of this forum, or any like it, is strange and a bit funny. To be clear, I love this forum and don't want it to change. I guess the point I'm slowly working towards is this; do carpenters go to hammer forums to geek out over new hammers, nails, levels, or tape measures? Do they want the most extreme materials, with custom colors and lightweight materials, sold in limited batches, from specific retailers? Knives are tools as well, so what exactly makes them so different? I'm sure Makita or some other company could manufacture some beautiful drills, using titanium, carbon fiber, and high end steels, but I doubt there would be a market for that sort of thing. Aside from knives being something we can carry on our person each and every day, or the fact that knives are man's oldest tool, is there really anything else that drives this nonsensical hobby so many of us are afflicted by? From a psychological perspective, it seems like we're a different breed, but without input, it's only speculation.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Evil D
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Evil D » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:42 am

There certainly are carpentry forums. I'm sure the debate there is different though because their "toys" are literally tools, and while a knife is a tool and many of us (myself included) do use our knives as tools, this is also more of a hobby than banging nails on a roof all day so you'll never see a full separation of the work and hobby sides of the knife life. There are also gobs of general woodworking forums where guys do obsess over 100 year old wood planes and they spend a fortune on stuff like that.

As for going against the grain, I guess my obsession with SE could fall into that category. I've also moved away from all out edge retention steels and towards tougher/easier to sharpen steels. I also have moved away from 50/50 choils on full size models, though that is just a preference and it didn't stop me from buying a Shaman.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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rabbitanarchy14
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:46 am

my against the grain happens to be i hate backlocks. all sizes all colors all handle materials, hate backlocks. so many ppl here on the forum and a few other places love their lockbacks and that is fine for them. i do not try to convince them they are bad or good. i really wish everyone would stop arguing with the few people who dont like them, get over it. just because they like them they all feel i have to like them too, no.

oh and the carpenter thing, yes. when i was working on police cars i did research and bought the best hardware.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V BL, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
On-Deck - Manix 2 Cruwear, Sage 5, Brouwer, Cat BD1N, Lil Native compression 20CV/M390
Loved Steels - Cruwear, M390 Family, S35VN, BD1N, XHP, S30V, N690Co

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:47 am

Lots to discuss! I'll only address the last part of your post right now:

There are definitely hammer geeks out there, and plenty of tradesmen will want to argue into the wee hours of the morning about which version of a masonry drill is better. Perhaps those communities are smaller and more specialized. Knives are extremely accessible as tools, so even though we here on the forums may be the weirdos of the knife using population, our enthusiast community may be larger than the hammer enthusiast community because the knife using population itself is larger.
Spyderco Collection: Always in Flux...
Southard, PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, Spyderhawk H1, Squarehead LW, Smallfly G10, BD1N UKPK, Calendar Para 3 LW, CRUCARTA Shaman, Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1, Lil Native
40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: Kapara, Lil Chokwe, Tanto PM2, Sage 5 LW, Shaman Sprints!

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:50 am

Oh, and Albatross: if you think the Para 3 is unbalanced, I hope you get to handle a Paysan one day. That'll give you a new definition ;)
Spyderco Collection: Always in Flux...
Southard, PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, Spyderhawk H1, Squarehead LW, Smallfly G10, BD1N UKPK, Calendar Para 3 LW, CRUCARTA Shaman, Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1, Lil Native
40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: Kapara, Lil Chokwe, Tanto PM2, Sage 5 LW, Shaman Sprints!

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Dazen
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Dazen » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:09 am

My Against the grain:

- I love heavier knives, and even advocated for heavyweights instead of lightweights. Sort of like my preference to shoot and carry all steel pistols and revolvers than polymer pistols and airweight revolvers.

- I also still love Carbon Fiber. I know most are tired of it and think it’s old school at this point, but all the different weaves and the ways they are finished still amaze me.

BTW, I do geek out over hammers! That’s why I have a Stiletto TiBone 18” 😁

prndltech
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby prndltech » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:13 am

Well albatross... there’s your answer :rolleyes:

I also have 3 snap on hammers and I don’t want to tell you what the total price was for em. And I’m not even a carpenter... I fix cars. Don’t get me started on tool prices :eek: :mad:
The planter, the farmer, the mechanic, and the laborer... form the great body of the people of the United States, they are the bone and sinew of the country men who love liberty and desire nothing but equal rights and equal laws. - Andrew Jackson

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Mushroom
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Mushroom » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:22 am

Its okay to collect knives.

Seems like that goes against the grain, for some reason, these days.
- Nick

:spyder:

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JuPaul
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby JuPaul » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:34 am

Against the grain: I don't love deep carry clips. Even when I have pants pockets that accommodate them, I prefer to have some handle above the level of the pocket to grab onto, and I like having less bulk in my pocket. The Shaman, for example, doesn't feel nearly as big in pocket to me as I expected since the clip rides higher. I still like the para3 lw quite a bit, though, but I'd like it more with a higher ride clip like the g10 para3.

Forums: I think car forums are a great parallel. There are countless car geek forums, and then there are brand specific car forums. My husband cruises the Toyota truck forums. And as a contractor, he also happens to have very expensive tools!
Be excellent to each other. - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

prndltech
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby prndltech » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:43 am

I forgot my against the grain, I don’t like the PM2 or para 3 and people think I’m crazy.... little do they know, they’re right! :cool:
The planter, the farmer, the mechanic, and the laborer... form the great body of the people of the United States, they are the bone and sinew of the country men who love liberty and desire nothing but equal rights and equal laws. - Andrew Jackson

TkoK83Spy
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby TkoK83Spy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:58 am

Against the grain - I'm really starting to strictly prefer larger knives. I never thought I would. I always thought of the Manix as a "big knife" Lately, carrying my Shaman's and Military...when I grab a Manix, even that is starting to feel small (granted still one of my favorite models) I've slowly begun to sell off some of my smaller knives and will only be keeping my favorite exclusives/sprints. I hardly give my Para 3's a thought any more and could care less I ever see another one, when 2 years ago I thought they were the best thing since sliced bread!

I also only like knives that have a finger choil. When using them, I have much more comfortable grip and easier to make more controlled/detailed cuts when it comes to expensive electrical equipment, etc at work. I only have 2 knives without one! (GB2 and Delica Pakkawood)
Last edited by TkoK83Spy on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Currently have 18 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

-Rick

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jdw
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby jdw » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 am

Against the grain.....I am not a fan of the PM2 nor the Para 3 and I prefer the liner lock Military and tip down carry. To me they all fall under the header "If it ain't broke don't fix it". The PM2 and Para 3 both feel really awkward in my hand and like part of my knife is missing. In the years that I have used a Military I have never had a liner lock fail and the opening action for tip down carry comes really natural to me. I really have no idea if there is the need for a Military 2 but it seems like it is more for promotional reasons and going "with the grain" than an actual need for CQI of a design.
Last edited by jdw on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Notsurewhy
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Notsurewhy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:11 am

The para 3lw balance issue ties in with one of the issues I seem to be against the grain on: overly thick blades. Why does a lightweight, linerless, plastic handled, three inch folder need .14 inch blade stock? It adds weight, ruins balance and makes the knife worse at what knives are supposed to do, Cut. I realize some people want an "overbuilt" knife with a thick blade, but a knife with linerless frn just isn't, no matter how thick the blade is. Why does the para 3 need a blade that's 75% thicker than a chaparral? Ironically, the chap has full steel liners, so it's the more robust knife for anything but prying with the blade.

I don't think every knife needs to be as thin as a chap or Centofante, but if the blade is thicker in mm than the length in inches, I'm probably not buying.

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The Deacon
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby The Deacon » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:55 am

Sounds like this goes under the "different strokes for different folk", "nothing works for everyone", "one man's meat is another man's poison" heading.

As for me, I probably go against the grain more than most. I don't care for handed locks, even when they're left handed. Prefer something that has the same "manual of arms" regardless of which hand I'm using. In fact, the only lock I really like is the midlock and even among those, I only like models that have a 50/50 choil. I love bolstered knives, but think bolsters marred by screw heads are obscene. Also think the Boye dent is a gimmick and, in at least some cases, a nuisance.

Thankfully, Spyderco offers a diverse enough selection of knives that most can find at least one they really like.
Last edited by The Deacon on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby JonLeBlanc » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:55 am

Mushroom wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:22 am
Its okay to collect knives.

Seems like that goes against the grain, for some reason, these days.
Hah I know right, I usually don't even tell people if they ask "what are your hobbies?" Because the looks one gets when one says "I collect knives..." Yikes.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

TkoK83Spy
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby TkoK83Spy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:11 am

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:55 am
Mushroom wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:22 am
Its okay to collect knives.

Seems like that goes against the grain, for some reason, these days.
Hah I know right, I usually don't even tell people if they ask "what are your hobbies?" Because the looks one gets when one says "I collect knives..." Yikes.
Haha, yep!! I get that at work sometimes. I'm "the knife guy" and there's a few other guys here that like knives, just not on the same level. They don't care about steels, handle materials and such. Some of the guys will joke around "Don't mess with Rick, he's probably got 6 knives on him today"

Nooo guys, actually only 3 :o :p
Currently have 18 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

-Rick

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Wartstein
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:16 am

JuPaul wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:34 am
Against the grain: I don't love deep carry clips. Even when I have pants pockets that accommodate them, I prefer to have some handle above the level of the pocket to grab onto, and I like having less bulk in my pocket. The Shaman, for example, doesn't feel nearly as big in pocket to me as I expected since the clip rides higher. I still like the para3 lw quite a bit, though, but I'd like it more with a higher ride clip like the g10 para3.

...
JuPaul, I am with you 100% percent, and this is also one of my possible "against the grain" things:

- I personally never got why one would want a deep carry clip, other than having or wanting to conceil the knife: It makes the knife both larger in pocket and harder to retrieve (even if you reach deeply in your pocket to retrieve the knife, like I do, your thumb will still be further away from the opening hole than with a NON deep carry clip).
Honestly, that´s one thing I really did not like on my Kapara: In fact a shorter package than the Endura, while offering about the same amount of edge, but felt LARGER in pocket due to the deep carry clip

- I prefer linerlocks over comp.locks (and backlocks over both anyway)

- I don´t like finger choils in Native / Para 3 / Sage - sized knives (just like them in smaller (Chap, D Fly), and can live with them in larger (Stretch and bigger) knives)

- I always choke up on Ricasso (like the Endura has) or even the sharp edge of a knife without any problemswhatsoever

-
Last edited by Wartstein on Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

James Y
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby James Y » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:23 am

I *really* dislike wire clips.

Jim

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Wartstein
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:28 am

rabbitanarchy14 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:46 am
my against the grain happens to be i hate backlocks. all sizes all colors all handle materials, hate backlocks. so many ppl here on the forum and a few other places love their lockbacks and that is fine for them. i do not try to convince them they are bad or good. i really wish everyone would stop arguing with the few people who dont like them, get over it. just because they like them they all feel i have to like them too, no.
With all due respect (and you and I already have had several very respectful and productive discussions :) ), I really have a different view on this: I can´t remember that anyone on this forum ever suggested you or others would HAVE to LIKE backlocks.
The backlock gets discussed most times as a reaction to posts like yours above, where you literally state you´d HATE backlocks (can´t remember anyone ever saying that about another lock type). Sure that triggers a reaction, people ask why, and pros and cons get discussed, like it should be on such a forum.

Another thing is, when people (not you!) state that backlocks would be very hard, slow or even impossible to operate one handed. Sure people who actually have experience with that locktype as an reaction want to point out, that this is not true. Whenever I do so, I mostly think of the "silent guests" on this forum, who maybe miss out on great knives, just because they believe that negative backlock-myths.

But that does not mean, that everybody has to LIKE that locktype.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Ankerson
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Re: Going against the grain

Postby Ankerson » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:31 am

My against the grain, really against the grain. LOL

I don't like the PM2, never really did due to the lock. If it was a frame lock or liner lock it would be different.

I like frame locks and liner locks the best with back locks next after those.


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