Spyderco Forums

I once started a poll about a "Chaparral XL" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580)

Still, whenever I use my Chap FRN I wish there would be a longer version of it, or just any model in the Endela / Stretch size with both such a thin, slicey ffg blade (2mm) and such a thin handle and by that thin profile in the pocket (the 2mm Centofante has a sabre hollow grind and a thicker handle)

I am 100% convinced, that a 2mm blade works perfectly well in - and is strong enough for 95 % of actual knife tasks, and in most of these better than a thicker blade (not in ALL of course)

And I am also convinced, that with an Endela-length blade (around 3.5 ") there would still be not too much leverage and it would hold up well if one uses the knife, well,like a knife (=cutting tool).

Additionally, it sometimes is nice to have a knife with such a thin handle and thin profile in the pocket.
I have to say, the thin Chap handle does feel rather comfortable in my hand.
As a matter of fact, compared to the a bit similar Native 5 FRN, when I actually use the knives (and not just hold them), the Chap does even feel a bit more stable in hand (for me personally the Native tends to "roll" a bit more in hand than the Chap in harder cutting).

I am also of the opinion, that real "hard use tasks", that maybe require a thicker blade, often times do NOT necessarely require also a long one.
While very often "slicing tasks", that benefit from a thinner blade, also benefit from a longer one.
So "big knife - thick blade"/ small knife - thin blade" is not always generally a good approach imho.

So for me at least just one a bit larger, 2mm "mainstream" ffg model is missing in Spydercos lineup.

What do you think?

Although something I'm not interested in, I believe there is a niche for it. I am surprised at how many people have mentioned using a pocket folder for kitchen duty and performing kitchen duty elsewhere than the kitchen (like slicing a sandwich at the office or an apple while on a hike). I'm now finding myself on occasion reaching to my pocket vs the knife block while working in the kitchen which I never did before. Would the Spydie Chef work as a platform for adaptation? Maintain the geometry/relationship of the handle and blade but adapt such as going lightweight FRN and ultra thin and possibly a different lock such as a backlock????

CG

cycleguy wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:44 am

Although something I'm not interested in, I believe there is a niche for it. I am surprised at how many people have mentioned using a pocket folder for kitchen duty and performing kitchen duty elsewhere than the kitchen (like slicing a sandwich at the office or an apple while on a hike). I'm now finding myself on occasion reaching to my pocket vs the knife block while working in the kitchen which I never did before. Would the Spydie Chef work as a platform for adaptation? Maintain the geometry/relationship of the handle and blade but adapt such as going lightweight FRN and ultra thin and possibly a different lock such as a backlock????

CG

For me the capabilites of such a knife would clearly not be restricted to just "kitchen duties"... I absolutely love to use my Chap (2mm stock) for whittling, fire making and generally even harder "wood-tasks". It can take this without any problem, and I am sure a blade that is let´s say 3.4 instead of 2.8 could still.
So I am not totally for a "food-prep-oriented" design (blade angle...) as the Spydie Chef has

Furthermore, many "oldtimer"-pocket knives had such or even thinner blades (though in rather tough carbon steels)

And I also think for a really thin knife a backlock is purely technically speaking the best or even the only way to go.

I've been asking for a Stretch with 2mm blade stock for years. :)

YES PLEASE!

I love my Chaparral and i wouldn't mind getting a bigger brother. I prefer the thin blade stock to all my other folders. I never have the need for a thick blade, while a thin blade increases performance a lot. Thick is also more annoying to sharpen and keep thin behind the edge. I'd probably trade in most of my Spyderco folders if i could swap em for a thinner version of the same knife.

I find the leaf blade shape with a little ramp on top from the Chaparral to be the best looking. I am also a big fan of the Chaparral FRN pattern. It just looks nice. I find the FRN on the older Spyderco models and the new Para 3 LW simply ugly. I also love the fish scale pattern on the Calypso Jr. Would be awesome for some salt knife.

The upcoming Sage 5 Lightweight is looking great and could have been the next (small) step up from the Chaparral (same FRN pattern, blade shape etc), but when i looked at the specs i saw the blade thickness and that was an instant turn off for me. I guess they need the thickness for the compression lock to function. But i'd love to see a Sage or Manix 2 with a chaparral like thin blade/handle and the same FRN pattern.

I think one of the issues is that most popular bigger knives are compression lock models and those don't work well with a thin blade. But i think a thin blade could be done with the caged ball bearing lock from the Manix 2.


So i'd love to see an updated Manix 2 LW with:
thinner blade and handle
CBBL or lock back
screw construction
Chaparral or Calapso Jr FRN pattern
LC200N steel

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:53 am

I've been asking for a Stretch with 2mm blade stock for years. :)

I’m not usually into large back locks, but a 2mm blade in the Stretch 2 would be an instant buy for me. Straight spine and LC200N would only sweeten the deal!

Dazen wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:10 am

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:53 am

I've been asking for a Stretch with 2mm blade stock for years. :)

I’m not usually into large back locks, but a 2mm blade in the Stretch 2 would be an instant buy for me. Straight spine and LC200N would only sweeten the deal!

That would be great. Though in such a model I´d hope the blade would be made a tad longer (there is space in the handle of the Stretch 2 for a good amount moe edge than the current version has to offer).
As said in my OP, I think especially thin, slicey knives also profit from a longer blade, often times more so than thick "hard use " knives.
And a blade length of 3.5 should still be "short" enough for the thin stock.

Thin blade stock is great, but I think a thin grind has more impact on cutting performance. There was a thread on that and Sal seemed at least open to the idea.

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:09 am

Thin blade stock is great, but I think a thin grind has more impact on cutting performance. There was a thread on that and Sal seemed at least open to the idea.

Can remember that thread!
But as Rutger said in his post (quote): "Thick is also more annoying to sharpen and keep thin behind the edge", so thin is BETTER in that regards.
Also, the combination of thin stock PLUST thin grind should be the best when you´re looking for a great slicer.

And, again referring to Rutgers post: Such a thin Chaparral XL-ish knife could be sold with a moderate thickness/thinness behind the edge, and it should be very easy to modify (due to the thin blade) should one want to have it even thinner behind the edge...

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:16 am

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:09 am

Thin blade stock is great, but I think a thin grind has more impact on cutting performance. There was a thread on that and Sal seemed at least open to the idea.

Can remember that thread!
But as Rutger said in his post (quote): "Thick is also more annoying to sharpen and keep thin behind the edge", so thin is BETTER in that regards.
Also, the combination of thin stock PLUST thin grind should be the best when you´re looking for a great slicer.

And, again referring to Rutgers post: Such a thin Chaparral XL-ish knife could be sold with a moderate thickness/thinness behind the edge, and it should be very easy to modify (due to the thin blade) should one want to have it even thinner behind the edge...

I agree, to have both would be best.

How about 2mm blade stock with a very high hollow grind? That way, the edge thickness would stay relatively constant throughout many sharpenings, while the high hollow grind and thin blade stock would still keep friction and binding to a minimum.

I would be very interested in a chaparral xl. Thin blade, backlock, g10. A lw version would be good too.

This reminds me that I need to pick up a new Chap LW. I sold mine when I heard it was getting a CQI. But I have been so enamored with my Cruwear Delica and now my Cruwear Shaman, and now my GITD Delica that I haven't bothered. I guess I will wait until there have been a few months of no releases that appeal to me and I start getting that itch faor something new! The Chap LW was my most carried knife for a long time.

Dazen wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:10 am

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:53 am

I've been asking for a Stretch with 2mm blade stock for years. :)

I’m not usually into large back locks, but a 2mm blade in the Stretch 2 would be an instant buy for me. Straight spine and LC200N would only sweeten the deal!

A 2mm Stretch would be a very different Stretch, and I’d buy it to see how different.

I like this idea. I tend to think of models like the manix backlock, shaman, etc as hard use or outdoor folders because of their thicker blade stock. Thinner stock on a knife with that blade shape and size would definitely appeal to me for more general edc purposes, though. Perhaps a resurrected and thinned out manix backlock, but either lightweight or with much thinner g10?

steelcity16 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:06 pm

This reminds me that I need to pick up a new Chap LW. I sold mine when I heard it was getting a CQI. But I have been so enamored with my Cruwear Delica and now my Cruwear Shaman, and now my GITD Delica that I haven't bothered. I guess I will wait until there have been a few months of no releases that appeal to me and I start getting that itch faor something new! The Chap LW was my most carried knife for a long time.

You need to indeed!! :eek:

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:09 am

Thin blade stock is great, but I think a thin grind has more impact on cutting performance. There was a thread on that and Sal seemed at least open to the idea.

I'm fairly certain that, for any given blade stock thickness, a thin edge grind will out perform an obtuse grind, all other things being equal. But I'm also fairly certain that, all other things being equal, a 20º inclusive edge grind on 2mm blade stock will out perform a 20º inclusive grind on 4mm blade stock.

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:37 pm

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:09 am

Thin blade stock is great, but I think a thin grind has more impact on cutting performance. There was a thread on that and Sal seemed at least open to the idea.

I'm fairly certain that, for any given blade stock thickness, a thin edge grind will out perform an obtuse grind, all other things being equal. But I'm also fairly certain that, all other things being equal, a 20º inclusive edge grind on 2mm blade stock will out perform a 20º inclusive grind on 4mm blade stock.

I'm talking more about a thin primary grind, i.e., 0.010" BTE versus 0.030". I agree that all parameters are part of the same equation; however, I tend to think there'd be a greater performance improvement if the Endela's primary grind was thinned out rather than simply going to thinner stock and maintaining the same BTE thickness.

No doubt about it, though; a 2mm Endela will outperform a 3mm Endela.

Yes the primary grind plays a big role in sliciness...

For most cutting tasks (dense foam being an exception) I find BTE thickness more important than blade stock thickness. The Urban has thicker blade stock than the Chap but has a steeper primary grind so while both are sharpened (at the edge) to 30° inclusive the Urban is quite a bit thinner BTE despite having a thicker blade.

All that said... Yes bring on the 'Thin Editions'

Urban K390
.1075 Spine (in front of plunge line)
.013/.011/.012 BTE ~ .012

Chaparral LW - CQI
.0775 Spine
.016/.017/.016 BTE ~ .016

Chap LW & Raffir Noble
1.5° per side - 3° inclusive

Urban K390
3.0° per side - 6° inclusive

Urban AEB-L
2.5° show side 3° clip side - 5.5° inclusive

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:51 pm

No doubt about it, though; a 2mm Endela will outperform a 3mm Endela.

For some metrics of performance, not for all.

(I'd prefer a BBL or maybe the Stop Lock or frame-compression-lock to a backlock, but hey, I carried a thinned-out Caly 3.5 today so I'm susceptible to thin backlocks too.)

JacksonKnives wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:20 pm

The Meat man wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:51 pm

No doubt about it, though; a 2mm Endela will outperform a 3mm Endela.

For some metrics of performance, not for all.

(I'd prefer a BBL or maybe the Stop Lock or frame-compression-lock to a backlock, but hey, I carried a thinned-out Caly 3.5 today so I'm susceptible to thin backlocks too.)

If one only thinks of a really thin blade (which is the more important part, no doubt), probably any lock is thinkable (though I don´t know if 2mm would offer still enough interface for a reliably working liner- or comp. lock?)

But what I meant in my op was a chaparralish-thin knife both in blade and handle. And I am quite sure that a really thin handle can only (or at least with the least problems) be made with a backlock?