Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

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wrdwrght
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#41

Post by wrdwrght »

Thought I had jumped on this bandwagon, but see I didn’t. I’d buy a Chaparral XL (for the same just-to-see reason I got a Manix2 XL).

But, I’d really rather have a fresh, long-and-thin Glesser design, one driven by a clear use-case, probably to be found in the kitchen where the SpydieChef and Kapara have been known to roam.
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#42

Post by JustinB »

Still on this bandwagon, still dream of a Chap XL that retains the 2mm stock thickness and handle thickness. It would be such an amazing lightweight folder in a slightly larger package (Like Wartstein said, PM2 or Endela size).

I have mentioned this in the other thread, but the success of the Benchmade 535 Bugout proves that a thin stock, thin handle, and lightweight folder will absolutely move units. It would be EDC perfection IMO
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#43

Post by Wartstein »

cabfrank wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:49 pm
I think the Catcherman might be too specialized as a filet knife to be a do anything EDC, but we'll find out. I really like Wartstein's idea of a longer Chaparral, still thin, and not a Sage. It might get a bit heavy though.


[! Quote from the Catcherman thread, which I did not want to derail anymore!]


Hey Cabfrank, thanks for supporting this! :smlling-eyes

On the weight:
- I imagine a "Chaparral XL" (handle and blade height / thinness stay the same, just elongated) to be of Endela size

Now:
- The closed length of the Chap FRN is 91 mm /3.60" and it weights 60 grams /2.1 oz.
- The closed length of an Endela is 119 mm / 4.69", so almost 1/4 of length added.
- If we say everyhing on the Chap FRN stays the same, it just gets stretched to about 12mm, this should mean a weight of about just 75 grams / 2.65 oz - so LIGHTER than even an Endela!

Yes, the Chap FRN has an extremely solid built with a lot of steel - but it is also very thin in blade and handle, which brings the weight down again!
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#44

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:09 pm
Wartstein, that’s not my opinion, Sal designed it that way. The Sage is the larger Chaparral.
[Quote also from the Catcherman thread, which I don´t want to derail anymore]

Hey Nick, thanks for the information! Of course I believe you, said it before: It is amazing how many details of Spydercos history and about designs you do know!

Now: I am sure Sal will have focussed of the overall shape of the Sage and designed a smaller version of it, and so the Chap can be called a smaller Sage of course.

But: As said in the Catcherman thread, the for me and I guess many defining features of a Chap are not existent in a Sage (uniquely thin ffg blade, uniquely thin handle, unique stop pin supersolid backlock, extremyl solid built) - which, to be clear, does not mean one is necessarily "better" than the other, just offering different things to the user.

Also, normally any larger or smaller version of a Spydie is definitely closer to the "original" than the Sage is to the Chap.
Examples would be
- Para 3 / PM2 and now Millie 2: Same lock, same handle thickness and height, same blade stock thickness, same materials
- Same goes for Native 5 and Chief
- When it comes to Delica / Endela /Endura there is a bit more difference, since the Delica is slimmer, thinner and less tall in handle and blade, but still it closer to its "bigger brothers" than a Chap to a Sage

But perhaps I just should have found another term than "Chaparral XL" for what I mean.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#45

Post by Bolster »

Wartstein's campaign has made me a convert believer. It's a beautiful vision. I'm on board for a Chap XL, if it retains a similar thin width blade stock, but with a somewhat longer blade. I think the existence of the Catcherman bodes well for Spyderco's willingness to make longer, but still thin, blades.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#46

Post by Wartstein »

Bolster wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:36 am
Wartstein's campaign has made me a convert believer. It's a beautiful vision. I'm on board for a Chap XL, if it retains a similar thin width blade stock, but with a somewhat longer blade. I think the existence of the Catcherman bodes well for Spyderco's willingness to make longer, but still thin, blades.

Thanks, Bolster! :clinking-mugs

Perhaps we´ll see such a knife one day... I am sure an Endela length blade in 2mm ffg and the generally rather stout Chap blade shape would be strong enough for a general EDC knife! I mean, many oldtimer folders are not thicker or even thinner.

Perhaps I´ll copy and paste here what I typed in the Catcherman-thread concerning what would make a "Chap XL" better suited as a general use (!) folder than the Catcherman:

".... But: The Catcherman really differs from the Chap in important areas (when it comes to "thin blade use").

- The Chap has a really short blade with not a ton of tapering going on, the Catcherman on the other hand has a really long blade (no idea about the tapering)
- The Chap has a pretty tall blade in relation to its (short) length, the Catcherman has a really "narrow" blade
- And, most important imo: The Chap actually has a pretty stout tip (for how thin the blade is!) - for one, not too much tapering along the spine, and then the tip profile is not too acute when looking at it from the flat of the blade (broad leaf shape) - the Catcherman though has a really pointy tip

Also, whenever I imagine one of my dream Spydies, a Chap XL with everything the same, just elongated (so also the same thin blade) - my "guts" tell me it should be not longer than an Endela in order to still be strong enough."
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#47

Post by cabfrank »

I'm guessing a little over 84 grams/3 oz. Thinking about it though, that would not be too heavy at all. I still need a SE version of the current Chap LW first though.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#48

Post by Skywalker »

Personally would prefer a thinner blade Endela rather than a larger Chaparral but would be strongly tempted by either.

I didn't care for the rest of the aesthetics of the Schempp Bowie but the 3.75" blade at 2.5mm stock thickness had me considering it repeatedly.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#49

Post by Notsurewhy »

I'm all for more knives with<3mm blade stock and slicey grinds. If the design is as nice as the chap, so much the better. I'm encouraged by the thinner 2.5mm lil native lw and catcherman in the latest reveal.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#50

Post by Bolster »

A stretched Chaparral concept, same height, same "cockpit."

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#51

Post by Wartstein »

Bolster wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:27 am
A stretched Chaparral concept, same height, same "cockpit."

Thanks, very nice! :smlling-eyes ... I have no idea how to do such "mock ups", so this is really appreciated.
For me personally the choil could probably a bit shorter though.

Now, looking at your pic people might think: "Well, just another mid sized folder, just another differently sized variant to an already existing model - do we need that?"

But just to reitarete: When it comes to the Chap "XL", this is different. And the differences can´t be seen in the pic.

We do have quite some models with 3 to 3.8 mm stock and a standard more handfilling, but also bulkier handle and the "usual" kind of backlock, comp.lock., linerloc in various sizes. And that is a good thing, don´t get me wrong.

But we do NOT have a single option for those who want a superslim carry (thin handle) and a 2mm ffg slicey blade in a larger size - and by that realistically probably ideal for what many carry an EDC knife for.

- I mean, who really brings the 3.00 or thicker blade of their EDC folders ever even close to their limit?-.. So why not have a still strong 2 mm blade, that offers a better foundation for being a real slicer?
- And won´t there be many who realistically don´t need a thicker handle for the tasks they normally perform and a thin carry in pocket would be nice?

Said it before: I think thinner blades actually are even better suited for a bit longer blades, cause people tend to reach for such longer blades for real slicing tasks. And that´s where thin stock shines the most too.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#52

Post by Bolster »

Slightly shorter ricasso-choil as requested, with original included for comparison. I tried to give the concept a blade about 3-1/4" in length.

You sold me on the idea, Wartstein. I think your justification for the CXL is sound. I'd love to have a slim easy-carry folder that's got a bit more blade. Though I'm very fond of the existing version too!

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#53

Post by Ngati Pom »

:up-index-finger
This looks so good. Thanks for the image Bolster.
Which steel are you thinking?
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#54

Post by Mushroom »

I’m not opposed to the knife, just the name “Chaparral XL.” I still believe it should seperate itself from the Chaparral series by adopting it’s own name.

Quoting myself from a previous discussion about this knife -
Mushroom wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:52 pm
…If Spyderco ever does develop a model like that though, I personally believe they should at least be more creative with the name than just “Chaparral 2” or “Chaparral XL.” Something that really removes it from the traditional Chaparral series but still recognizes where it came from.

After a little bit of research I’ve noticed an interesting connection between the Chaparral and Sage names. “Sagebrush” is one of the most dominant plant species that makes up the “Chaparral” biome. The name “Sage” is easily derived from “Sagebrush” and with the Sagebrush being a large part of the “Chaparral biome,” one could make the case that is why the “Chaparral” was named the way it was.

Another interesting similarity is that they’re both controlled series’ that feature a uniquely different feature per variation. (Lock and Handle material) It’s almost as if they were always intended to be the bigger and smaller versions of each other.

Circling back to my point about naming the “longer Chaparral” that you’re looking for, I think the model name should be similarly as creative and well-considered as the Sage and Chaparral names already are. One idea I came up with is the name “Chamise” or “Chamise Chaparral.” (shə-ˈmēs - shuh mees) It is a shrub species that grows in the Chaparral biome and has one of the largest growing ranges of any Chaparral species. It would be similar to how the Native 5 evolved into the Native Chief and not the Native XL. I can’t even begin to describe how much better the name “Native Chief” is over “Native XL.”

[Also, on a completely unrelated note, with real Chaparral biomes being composed primarily of evergreen shrubs, I think it’s only fitting that we get some version of a green handle material on a Chaparral! Even a regular production sage green FRN ;) Chaparral LW would be cool to see. :cheap-sunglasses]
On the idea of an “Endela Thin Edition,” it seems feasible. If the “high performance Delica” with a high hollow grind VG10 blade is successful, maybe the Endela and Endura will also be given similar “high performance” variations.
-Nick :bug-red
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#55

Post by TimButterfield »

Bolster wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:52 pm
Image
Thanks for that image. It's been growing on me. Maybe we could add a lanyard hole. I miss that on the Chap.

I also agree with Mushroom about the naming. Combining 'super thin' with XL seems a bit at odds with itself. I'm not sure what reason Chaparral was chosen as a name. But, if we are to consider Chaparral as a "a thicket of small trees or shrubs", perhaps the larger version could be something like Bosque as "a dense group of bushes or trees". It makes me think of Bosque del Apache NWR ("woodland of the Apache"). As a side note, that's an amazing place in the winter with the snow geese migration and the sandhill cranes. Make sure to bring the long lens for the camera and a warm coat. lol

I'm sold.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#56

Post by Flash »

I think my ideal back lock would be an extended Chaparral. Say a 3.4 inch blade but retain the 2mm stock.

A less rusty steel would be a must though, CTS-XHP on my Chap is the only stainless steel I have ever put rust on, and thats including (semi-stainless) D2. If it’s gonna rust, may as well just go full toolsteel and gain the edge stability advantages. I think K390 or 10v would perform amazingly well @ 2mm / low geometries.

No lanyard holes please, it’s nice to keep a model for people who don’t like having a pocket clip designed around a hole so people can have stuff hanging out the back of their knives for whatever their reason may be.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#57

Post by Wartstein »

Flash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:30 pm
I think my ideal back lock would be an extended Chaparral. Say a 3.4 inch blade but retain the 2mm stock.

A less rusty steel would be a must though, CTS-XHP on my Chap is the only stainless steel I have ever put rust on, and thats including (semi-stainless) D2. If it’s gonna rust, may as well just go full toolsteel and gain the edge stability advantages. I think K390 or 10v would perform amazingly well @ 2mm / low geometries.

...

Matches pretty perfectly what I imagine too... would be about Endela size, have about 3" actual cutting edge. Not too long for 2mm ffg, I figure, but still of a length where the thin stock can actually begin to shine (imo a lot more than in the short "regular" Chap blade).

As said: To me also part of the package would be that the handle stays as thin as it is for that great, flat carry.

Not too concerned with what steel. XHP is more than fine for me, but your proposals equally so.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#58

Post by TimButterfield »

Flash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:30 pm
No lanyard holes please, it’s nice to keep a model for people who don’t like having a pocket clip designed around a hole so people can have stuff hanging out the back of their knives for whatever their reason may be.
The Chap already has a wire clip. I would like a larger version to also have a wire clip.

Would it work for you if it had a clip that was not designed around a lanyard hole? If so, consider the small lanyard hole of the Sage 5. It is below the clip instead of in the middle of it. The Dragonfly is similar in that the small lanyard hole is not within the clip. Personally, for a bit larger knife, I'm in favor of how the Sage 5 does it. This lets the clip be more deep carry while still giving the option of a differently placed lanyard if desired. I used smaller 425 cord for these two.
Image

In this sense, I agree with you. The clip should not be designed around a lanyard hole. But, if a lanyard hole could be added after the wire clip location is determined first, I would like that option.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#59

Post by olywa »

I've always felt that the Endela should have been introduced with the thin blade stock of the Delica from the get-go. I'd love to see this idea get some traction.
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

#60

Post by PaloArt »

Very very interested Wartstein, I love hunk of a knife from time to time (Manix G10) but most of the time I prefer high performance slicer, which Chaparral is. Longer version of Chap would mean I would, most probably, limit carrying my Opinels, which are carried as ultimate pocket lightsabers for me.

Chaparral is one of my most favorite Spyderco designs, absolutely great ergos, slim, elegant, high performance, can be used quite hard even with it`s thin blade. Pure love.
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