Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

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Tims
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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Tims » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:20 am

Put me down for something long, thin and slicey.

Every time I carry one of my traditionals, I’m reminded that geometry cuts and all things being equal, I prefer thinner blade stock on an edc knife. Durability is not really an issue when you can simply opt for a more obtuse primary bevel(outside of genuine hard working knives of course)

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:29 am

Tims wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:20 am
Put me down for something long, thin and slicey.

Every time I carry one of my traditionals, I’m reminded that geometry cuts and all things being equal, I prefer thinner blade stock on an edc knife. Durability is not really an issue when you can simply opt for a more obtuse primary bevel(outside of genuine hard working knives of course)
Yes, and as I said already: Often times when you want a thin, slicey blade you ALSO want a longer blade (food prep being the most prominent example for that), while many "thick blade" hard use tasks (not all of course), like prying or the like can be done perfectly well or even better with a shorter, stout blade...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Rutger » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:20 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:55 am
JacksonKnives wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:20 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:51 pm
No doubt about it, though; a 2mm Endela will outperform a 3mm Endela.
For some metrics of performance, not for all. ;)

(I'd prefer a BBL or maybe the Stop Lock or frame-compression-lock to a backlock, but hey, I carried a thinned-out Caly 3.5 today so I'm susceptible to thin backlocks too.)
If one only thinks of a really thin blade (which is the more important part, no doubt), probably any lock is thinkable (though I don´t know if 2mm would offer still enough interface for a reliably working liner- or comp. lock?)

But what I meant in my op was a chaparralish-thin knife both in blade and handle. And I am quite sure that a really thin handle can only (or at least with the least problems) be made with a backlock?
Back lock would be the easiest yeah. Though i think CBBL is feasible too. They could even go with the Benchmade axis lock since the patent has expired. That lock is even nicer than the CBBL cause it is open completely on the top whereas the CBBL needs a backspacer partly for the lock to function. I'd prefer open construction for cleaning over the backlock and CBBL.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby ABX2011 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:40 am

I'd be interested in a larger back lock with 2mm stock. However, I do question the market appeal for such a knife.
Sal mentioned doing a high hollow run on an existing model to satisfy perormance oriented forumites. That sounds good to me.
My experience agrees with others here that having a thin grind will effect cutting performance more than thinner stock. Of course both will have the maxiumum impact.
I reground my Centofante 3 to a flat saber grind. The stock hollow grind is not very deep. I have the edge just thick enough to hold up to wood carving. But VG-10 is still not ideal. I'd much prefer a higher hardness steel with decent toughness like Cruwear, 4V, etc.

I'll give an example of thin stock and thick grind being the worst of both. The new Spyderco Z-Cut paring knives. At the spine behind the Spydie hole it measures 1/32" yet it's thick behind the edge because the primary grind is so shallow. Didn't cut well and flexed excessively when cutting.
Using thicker stock and a thinner primary grind would produce a better knife. I thinned the edge but it's still not ideal.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby abbazaba » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 pm

I'm interested, and still advocating for a PM2 Backlock with thinner stock and handles rather than thicker like the Manix2 Backlock. 2mm and linerless G10 would be awesome IMHO, and match your 3.5" blade length request. Cold Steel pulled off some very thin linerless G10 on the 4" Broken Skull and you don't hear about those breaking.
Last edited by abbazaba on Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:47 pm

abbazaba wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 pm
I'm interested, and still advocating for a PM2 Backlock with thinner stock and handles rather than thicker like the Manix2 Backlock. 2mm and linerless G10 would be awesome IMHO.
Thin PM2 backlock?! Great idea!! :) (Though FRN would be the icing on the cake for me personally... or just a "thin edition" of the upcoming Straight Spine Stretch..
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby abbazaba » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:56 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:47 pm
abbazaba wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 pm
I'm interested, and still advocating for a PM2 Backlock with thinner stock and handles rather than thicker like the Manix2 Backlock. 2mm and linerless G10 would be awesome IMHO.
Thin PM2 backlock?! Great idea!! :) (Though FRN would be the icing on the cake for me personally... or just a "thin edition" of the upcoming Straight Spine Stretch..
I really like FRN, but it may make it thicker than G10 would, using the Police4 G10 vs FRN as an example, and the CS Broken Skull mentioned above. It worked for the Chaparral, but that might partly be because of its length vs bendiness.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:11 pm

abbazaba wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:56 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:47 pm
abbazaba wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 pm
I'm interested, and still advocating for a PM2 Backlock with thinner stock and handles rather than thicker like the Manix2 Backlock. 2mm and linerless G10 would be awesome IMHO.
Thin PM2 backlock?! Great idea!! :) (Though FRN would be the icing on the cake for me personally... or just a "thin edition" of the upcoming Straight Spine Stretch..
I really like FRN, but it may make it thicker than G10 would, using the Police4 G10 vs FRN as an example, and the CS Broken Skull mentioned above. It worked for the Chaparral, but that might partly be because of its length vs bendiness.
The Chap actually has nested steel liners... I think if one aims for the thinnest (and not necessarely lightest handle possible, linered FRN (or linered G10) is the way to go probably. Thin steel liners nested in thin FRN (or G10) should be the best when it comes very thin, but still not bendy?

My original proposal when starting this thread was indeed something like the Chap, just larger. So a very thin blade in a very thin handle (which probably needs steel liners to remain rigid enough)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Coffeetron » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:08 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:45 am


So for me at least just one a bit larger, 2mm "mainstream" ffg model is missing in Spydercos lineup.

What do you think?
2mm ffg is plenty imo. I would not choose the chaparral platform since it looses edge because of the choil. An all edge model like the caribbean with ~100mm edge length would be great.

I read something about a planned cpm 15v knife and I think that this combination would be the best. :)

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby cbrstar » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:21 pm

Wouldn't a Chaparral XL be basically a Sage?

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby cycleguy » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:57 pm

cbrstar wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:21 pm
Wouldn't a Chaparral XL be basically a Sage?
I think it would be a little more slender/elongated than a Sage.

I had my Ti Chap out of the drawer today and was imagining it a little longer in the handle and a little longer in the blade when I had it in hand; and thought, wow, that would be really cool.

Count me in!

CG

P.S. I'd also like a Caribbean at about 3/4 its current size.
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:01 am

cbrstar wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:21 pm
Wouldn't a Chaparral XL be basically a Sage?
cycleguy wrote:
cbrstar wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:21 pm
Wouldn't a Chaparral XL be basically a Sage?
I think it would be a little more slender/elongated than a Sage.

I had my Ti Chap out of the drawer today and was imagining it a little longer in the handle and a little longer in the blade when I had it in hand; and thought, wow, that would be really cool.

Count me in!

CG

P.S. I'd also like a Caribbean at about 3/4 its current size.
A Chap XL would mabye look a lot like a Sage, but the Sage is not what I am proposing in this thread, but just another 3mm stock knife with an handle of "regular" thickness. Which is fine, don´t get me wrong, but as said: NOT the longer, very thin both in handle and blade (2mm) folder that´s somewhat missing in Spydercos lineup (or in the lineup of most companies, Spyderco makes many rather thin and slicey blades anyway compared to other brands)

I would also like that "thin edition" knife to offer a bit more edge than the Sage. At least like a Stretch / Endela does.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:04 am

Coffeetron wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:08 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:45 am


So for me at least just one a bit larger, 2mm "mainstream" ffg model is missing in Spydercos lineup.

What do you think?
2mm ffg is plenty imo. I would not choose the chaparral platform since it looses edge because of the choil. An all edge model like the caribbean with ~100mm edge length would be great.

I read something about a planned cpm 15v knife and I think that this combination would be the best. :)
You are right, while I like the choil in the existing Chap (cause its handle is overall so short, that the choil is somewhat mandatory to get a good four finger grip, even if the handle was designed "choilless"), in such a loinger slicer I´d like to see an edge as long as possible.

Though concerning a "thin Caribbean": I don´t know how a comp.lock would work with such a thin bladestock, that offers not much lock interface.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Coffeetron » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:39 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:04 am
Coffeetron wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:08 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:45 am


So for me at least just one a bit larger, 2mm "mainstream" ffg model is missing in Spydercos lineup.

What do you think?
2mm ffg is plenty imo. I would not choose the chaparral platform since it looses edge because of the choil. An all edge model like the caribbean with ~100mm edge length would be great.

I read something about a planned cpm 15v knife and I think that this combination would be the best. :)
You are right, while I like the choil in the existing Chap (cause its handle is overall so short, that the choil is somewhat mandatory to get a good four finger grip, even if the handle was designed "choilless"), in such a loinger slicer I´d like to see an edge as long as possible.

Though concerning a "thin Caribbean": I don´t know how a comp.lock would work with such a thin bladestock, that offers not much lock interface.
I mentioned the caribbean because of the choil-less design which is rather uncommon with Spyderco. I think backlock would be totally fine.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Robishere » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:12 am

There is a chaparral xl. Its called a native.
“Putting fancy thoughts in a woman’s head is like putting lace on a bowling ball.....no good can come of it.” - Archie Bunker.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:30 am

Robishere wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:12 am
There is a chaparral xl. Its called a native.
No offense, but did you actually read my original post? I may quote myself:
"Still, whenever I use my Chap FRN I wish there would be a longer version of it, or just any model in the Endela / Stretch size with both such a thin, slicey ffg blade (2mm) and such a thin handle and by that thin profile in the pocket..."

The Native does not have that great thin blade, nor that thin handle and by that thin profile in the pocket
The Native also does not offer more edge than the Chap (while being much thicker), it is not really a larger knife (and for me personally even LESS stable in hand than the Chap when I really USE and not just HOLD the knives).

So, while the Native is totally fine, it is "just" another rather regular 3 mm stock Spyderco and not a "thin edition" or "Chap XL".
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Robishere » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Ah, I thought you just meant blade length and shape.

I agree with the thin blade. I have the titanium native and adore it, as it slices better than most any other knife I have.

Recently I bought 2 zt 0562 knives and they are like folding hatchets. Great for cutting mudflaps a d traffic cones, but thats it. They even suck whittling wood. They say “proudly overbuilt” but in reality they are so thick they are not great at cutting much.

The chaparral is magnificent at slicing and cutting. The native is no slouch there either. I bought 4 of the g10 that are lined with the s35vn when I heard they were going all plastic and linerless. I got one by mistake and it looked and felt cheap. I swapped my native maxamet blade into the black g10 so it was not a total loss.

I do agree folding knives are better suited to slicing and cutting than batoning, chopping, drilling, hammering and such.
“Putting fancy thoughts in a woman’s head is like putting lace on a bowling ball.....no good can come of it.” - Archie Bunker.

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Re: Still wishing for a Chaparral XL / Endela "thin edition" / or something along that lines

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:17 pm

Robishere wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:08 pm
Ah, I thought you just meant blade length and shape.

I agree with the thin blade. I have the titanium native and adore it, as it slices better than most any other knife I have.

Recently I bought 2 zt 0562 knives and they are like folding hatchets. Great for cutting mudflaps a d traffic cones, but thats it. They even suck whittling wood. They say “proudly overbuilt” but in reality they are so thick they are not great at cutting much.

The chaparral is magnificent at slicing and cutting. The native is no slouch there either. I bought 4 of the g10 that are lined with the s35vn when I heard they were going all plastic and linerless. I got one by mistake and it looked and felt cheap. I swapped my native maxamet blade into the black g10 so it was not a total loss.

I do agree folding knives are better suited to slicing and cutting than batoning, chopping, drilling, hammering and such.
Thanks for your reply!

I think that 3mm bladestock (Native) is a good choice for a general utility folder! Though a blade as short as the Natives could go with 2.5 (as the Delica does), and 3mm is a better general thickness for knives in the Endura size range, just imho of course

So I would not want to have ONLY 2mm / "thin editions" like the Chap is, but at least ONE bigger "thin edition" knife (Stretch / PM2 / Endela size) would be great!! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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