K390 PM2 | Testing

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EngDevGr3
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby EngDevGr3 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:56 am

Just a FYI for another data point, mine tested at 63.4.

sok
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby sok » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:08 am

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:37 am

Nice man, I'd slap a deep carry clip of your choice on that baby. A lynch or MXG.
Good call. Actually, I had one ordered and it was out for delivery when you suggested this. Just got my hands on it today. ;)
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Ankerson » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:37 am

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:26 am
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:44 am
Good stuff, thanks. Surprised at how uneven the grind was. I don't mind bevels being uneven when freehand sharpening. I just keep the angle as consistent as possible and disregard the bevel. I've never had a spyderco show up as uneven as this one did though. Surprising.
I'm a freehand sharpener so I don't notice with my other knives, like I mentioned above, freehand sharpeners match the bevels more since we focus on matching by eye.

With a fixed angle system it sets the exact angle. With the laser it shows the exact angle.

It seems most production knives should be kept at 20dps on a system like this to avoid funky looking bevels and there some tricks to even out the bevels aesthetically using slightly different angles on each side.

I've noticed the fixed angle boys complain about this but I never understood because I did not use nor own a good fixed angle system like the edge pro until just recently to play with. I have been curious to see what Jim Ankerson was always talking about and also lots of my customers use this system so I traded a Vanax knife for an edgepro apex to see what this was about.

I wanted to test the edge so I just hammered a 14dps on the blade with a disregard to the aesthetics. If I'm not selling it I personally don't care which feels good when your life revolves around stressing about aesthetics for what you do sell.

I am happy to have this knife and I'mma use it a lot. I could regrind it but I'd rather spend that time and money on work I sell so I can keep doing what I do.


Getting the EP was likely the smartest thing you did, will be a large time saver for you in the long run.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Deadboxhero » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:25 pm

Took me a few years after our conversation to get one but I understand now. Works nice for testing.


Ankerson wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:37 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:26 am
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:44 am
Good stuff, thanks. Surprised at how uneven the grind was. I don't mind bevels being uneven when freehand sharpening. I just keep the angle as consistent as possible and disregard the bevel. I've never had a spyderco show up as uneven as this one did though. Surprising.
I'm a freehand sharpener so I don't notice with my other knives, like I mentioned above, freehand sharpeners match the bevels more since we focus on matching by eye.

With a fixed angle system it sets the exact angle. With the laser it shows the exact angle.

It seems most production knives should be kept at 20dps on a system like this to avoid funky looking bevels and there some tricks to even out the bevels aesthetically using slightly different angles on each side.

I've noticed the fixed angle boys complain about this but I never understood because I did not use nor own a good fixed angle system like the edge pro until just recently to play with. I have been curious to see what Jim Ankerson was always talking about and also lots of my customers use this system so I traded a Vanax knife for an edgepro apex to see what this was about.

I wanted to test the edge so I just hammered a 14dps on the blade with a disregard to the aesthetics. If I'm not selling it I personally don't care which feels good when your life revolves around stressing about aesthetics for what you do sell.

I am happy to have this knife and I'mma use it a lot. I could regrind it but I'd rather spend that time and money on work I sell so I can keep doing what I do.


Getting the EP was likely the smartest thing you did, will be a large time saver for you in the long run.
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Tucson Tom » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:09 pm

I just want to say thanks for posting all of this.

I always take particular note of things you post and what you have to say.

And you prodded me into buying one of these. I have avoided BBS because of all the bad press up to now. All I can say thus far is that the purchase itself was smooth as silk. And maybe all the bad press is why they are still available, which works nicely for me in this case.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Ankerson » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:00 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:09 pm
I just want to say thanks for posting all of this.

I always take particular note of things you post and what you have to say.

And you prodded me into buying one of these. I have avoided BBS because of all the bad press up to now. All I can say thus far is that the purchase itself was smooth as silk. And maybe all the bad press is why they are still available, which works nicely for me in this case.


The only reason and I do mean the only reason they get bad press is because they aren't as cheap as most of the other dealers. ;)

So it's more sour grapes than anything so completely ignore any bad press you hear or read as it's irrelevant.. People complain about almost anything and everything these days.. :rolleyes:

They do however have models that MOST of the other dealers don't have.

And they are a respectable dealer.

They aren't the 1st place I look, but if the others don't have what I want they usually will. Yeah they cost a few bucks more so it's a choice and worth it if you want that model. The aftermarket markup on some models will be a lot higher than BBB will charge and it will be NEW from a dealer. So as I said it is a choice if that's the knife you want.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Albatross » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:53 am

Ankerson wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:00 pm
Tucson Tom wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:09 pm
I just want to say thanks for posting all of this.

I always take particular note of things you post and what you have to say.

And you prodded me into buying one of these. I have avoided BBS because of all the bad press up to now. All I can say thus far is that the purchase itself was smooth as silk. And maybe all the bad press is why they are still available, which works nicely for me in this case.


The only reason and I do mean the only reason they get bad press is because they aren't as cheap as most of the other dealers. ;)

So it's more sour grapes than anything so completely ignore any bad press you hear or read as it's irrelevant.. People complain about almost anything and everything these days.. :rolleyes:

They do however have models that MOST of the other dealers don't have.

And they are a respectable dealer.

They aren't the 1st place I look, but if the others don't have what I want they usually will. Yeah they cost a few bucks more so it's a choice and worth it if you want that model. The aftermarket markup on some models will be a lot higher than BBB will charge and it will be NEW from a dealer. So as I said it is a choice if that's the knife you want.
I have seen complaints about their return policy, but unless BBS ships the wrong knife, or the customer develops buyer's remorse, Spyderco's warranty should take care of the rest, making the return policy a non-issue in most cases.
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Ankerson » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:43 am

Albatross wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:53 am
Ankerson wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:00 pm
Tucson Tom wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:09 pm
I just want to say thanks for posting all of this.

I always take particular note of things you post and what you have to say.

And you prodded me into buying one of these. I have avoided BBS because of all the bad press up to now. All I can say thus far is that the purchase itself was smooth as silk. And maybe all the bad press is why they are still available, which works nicely for me in this case.


The only reason and I do mean the only reason they get bad press is because they aren't as cheap as most of the other dealers. ;)

So it's more sour grapes than anything so completely ignore any bad press you hear or read as it's irrelevant.. People complain about almost anything and everything these days.. :rolleyes:

They do however have models that MOST of the other dealers don't have.

And they are a respectable dealer.

They aren't the 1st place I look, but if the others don't have what I want they usually will. Yeah they cost a few bucks more so it's a choice and worth it if you want that model. The aftermarket markup on some models will be a lot higher than BBB will charge and it will be NEW from a dealer. So as I said it is a choice if that's the knife you want.
I have seen complaints about their return policy, but unless BBS ships the wrong knife, or the customer develops buyer's remorse, Spyderco's warranty should take care of the rest, making the return policy a non-issue in most cases.


Well they do enforce BUYER responsibility.

A lot of companies have a no return policy and or restocking fees to cut down on return policy abuse.

So it's nothing new or even abnormal.

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Tucson Tom
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Tucson Tom » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:50 am

Albatross wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:53 am
I have seen complaints about their return policy, but unless BBS ships the wrong knife, or the customer develops buyer's remorse, Spyderco's warranty should take care of the rest, making the return policy a non-issue in most cases.
That's what I figure. I have never had to return a knife (except to Amazon, and I have learned my lesson there) of the many I have purchased, so I don't see that as a big concern. If there really is something wrong with the knife, Spyderco will take care of me.

I am enthused about the K390. My first experience with that class of steel was the PM A11 mule, which astounded me that it essentially never needed to be sharpened. Then I picked up the Police 4, which I like for any number of reasons apart from the K390 steel. Given how much I like the PM2, it just makes sense to pick up this knife.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby anycal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:47 pm

I pretty much subject every new knife to similar cutting tasks. I like to compare their wear resistance (by no means a controlled experiment) of the factory edge. Couple of cardboard boxes, little bit of oak or walnut whittling, some pallet decorating :D . Then take it to a sheet of phone book paper for some wavy cuts. It doesn't take much to dull up a factory edge on most knives.

This K390 has definitely been one of the better ones. Better than my other PM2s, for sure. Even under magnification, the edge looks very clean, stable.

I have been carrying nothing but PM2s since this one dropped. Even in office and places I normally bring a smaller knife to.

I may have found a new favorite PM2! I like tool steel in general, and the ranger green is awesome! Apologies to the other PM2s in my collection.

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Would be nice if we could keep the BBS back and forth off of at least one of these threads.
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby abbazaba » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:23 pm

Agreed on all points, including the last one!

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:43 am

Hardness looks inline with what Kurt/Jcoolg19 and EngDevG3r got.

Looks like they ran the PM2 batch 63-64rc

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Pelagic » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:45 am

Good stuff. Thanks for your contributions to the community!
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Deadboxhero
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:00 am

I appreciate that, Thank you.
Pelagic wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:45 am
Good stuff. Thanks for your contributions to the community!
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sok
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby sok » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:42 am

^^Nice, just saw your new toy on your YT channel. Appropriately named Grizzly.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Rutger » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:35 am

Good chance that REX45 will outperform this due to the higher hardness...

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby attila » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:45 am

wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:35 am
Good chance that REX45 will outperform this due to the higher hardness...
I was actually wondering about this and what experienced users of both steels have seen. I don't cut enough to have noticed any difference, and the only K390 I have is a lightly used Urban.

I'm guessing 65-66 hrc Rex 45 would support a fine edge longer, but may be passed up by the higher vanadium+tungsten content of 63-64 hrc K390 in extended cutting scenarios. At the same hardness, I think K390 would win hands down, but I can't be sure.

If K390 at this hardness outperforms the Rex 45 that the PM2 sprint featured, I'll consider buying the former and selling my copy of the latter.
Own: Delica, Old S30V Native, modified Breeden Rescue, Delica, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW,Pakkawood Delica, Cruwear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, M4 Manix 2, HAP40 Caly 3, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, Pakkawood DF2, Cruwear PM2, SE Pac Salt, HAP40 Jazzlica, S110V Native, P.I.T.S., DLC Manix 2, REX 45 PM2, Para 3, XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, 20CV PM2, Rhino, SB Calypso Jr., B70P, PMA11, K03, ZDP Stretch 2, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, 204p PM2, Swick, SG Delica, backlock Lil'Native, AEB-L Urban, HAP40 Stretch, KC Cruwear Manix 2, Cruwear Military, M390 PM2, Cruwear Delica, 4V Lil'Native, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Para 3 LW, M390 Manix 2, K390 Police 4, RexWood Shaman, DLC Cruwear Shaman, Rex 45 Manix 2, Native 5, Native LW, 204p Para 3, S45VN PM2, S90V Manix LW, 20CV Manix 2, Rex 45 Shaman, Lil’Native.

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby abbazaba » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:33 am

Does anyone remember what HRC the K390 Urban was?

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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby The Meat man » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:36 am

abbazaba wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:33 am
Does anyone remember what HRC the K390 Urban was?
62.5, according to ZrowsN1s' HRC database:

viewtopic.php?t=83847
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Re: K390 PM2 | Testing

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:45 am

Rutger wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:35 am
Good chance that REX45 will outperform this due to the higher hardness...
It doesn't work that simple,

Rex 45 has ~8% total carbide volume in the matrix. It's 2.5% vanadium Carbides plus ~5.5% Softer M6C Tungsten Molybdenum rich Carbides.

K390 has ~16-17% volume Vanadium carbides in the matrix.

So, that k390 edge will resist being worn down and blunted smooth from lots of cutting.

The rex 45 matrix may be harder but the K390 is still more wear resistant and will cut longer.

Rex 45 is fun for how hard it is from a production company. Really enjoy the keen edge holding it offers and can drop angles lower with great stability and how easy it is to shape the apex to a very keen edge since we don't have to cut and shape as many very hard carbides.
It's crazy that we have Hap40/Rex45 in a production folder. Gotta love that "voodoo steel"

Softer K390 still has more edge aggression.

At 63.5rc, the k390 edge has what I call a "Cruwear" effect meaning it's sharpenablity is very high, I've been talking with Michael Christy about his thoughts on the Pm2 k390 edge character, I feel we both agree, it's interesting to see that sticky edge Cruwear effect at 63-64 but with the aggression of k390 it makes for a nice edge character that's fun to play with.

Larrin Thomas was flexing his Heat treatment skills and he Heat treated a K390 test knife at 68rc. I still need to test, it is impressive seeing what the maximum limit is for k390, there isn't any data for that though so no one knows what that edge is like and it is horrendous to grind so not realistic for making knives at high volume.

When the matrix is harder with hard carbides inside at high volume, it's a nightmare to grind and the abrasive cost goes through the roof, that's why it's so neat that Spyderco makes Maxamet so available, they deserve a great deal of respect for that.

About the Cruwear, I run the Cruwear softer in my customs because I like how that edge comes up in Cruwear at 62-63rc. Cruwear is capable of 65rc but it was encroaching on CPM 4v's territory and cruwear doesn't have the firepower of 4v. So, I felt the benifit to Cruwear was the edge character and sharpenablity, so I kept lower for that sticky edge that comes up easy with a variety of different stones.
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