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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:05 am
by steelcity16
Replaced CTS-XHP with CPM-154 since there were no votes for the former and a few mentions for the latter. You can change your vote as many times as you want.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:12 am
by jacala
If I was in the Military again, and going overseas to a war zone:
I would choose a Spyderco Military with a steel(blade) that I could sharpen on the nearest rock,
or a generic sharpener from in my pocket.
So that means LC200 or H1.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
by steelcity16
ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:10 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:49 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:19 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:07 pm



I would love an LC200N Salt version, but I made the assumption that they aren't going to come out of the gate with this. This poll is for an S30V alternative for a non-Salt debut. I left S30V on there in case people want to keep it BAU.
I don't know what BAU is. If we're going for a soldier's knife an LC200N blade (with or without the rest of the knife getting the full Salt treatment) makes the most sense for the base model, for the reasons I've listed. The exotic, hard to sharpen, low corrosion resistance, carbon steels should be left for later variants for afis.

BAU = Business As Usual

I'm a big LC200N fan and huge Salt fan, but calling it tougher and easier to sharpen than Cruwear is a bit of a stretch. Not sure I agree with either of those statements, despite what one chart or another may say. Cruwear is also plenty corrosion resistant unless you are a Navy Seal or in the Coast Guard or a Fisherman or something where you will be on salt water, but even then I don't think I've seen anyone with corrosion on a Cruwear blade. Maybe Lance or Pelagic can opine here with their experience with Cruwear on the ocean. I don't oil or wipe down or do anything special to mine and they are fine, but I am not taking it out on a boat in the ocean either.

I still don't see them coming out with LC200N in a Non-Salt production model, and I don't think it will be released initially as a Salt, so I left it off for now. If they do a Salt after the fact like they did with the Native Salt, I will 100% buy one.


Interesting link on someone trying to patina Cruwear.

https://nemoknivesreview.com/2018/09/24 ... that-easy/
That link is interesting, but my sweat (doing much less rigorous things post military service, in the summer humidity of the deep south and the midwest) has rusted the steel liners on a few Spydies. A respected member of this forum who's a sharpening guru says that Cru-Wear takes time, skills, and the proper tools to sharpen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRhZCr58yb4&t=558s. I've sharpened LC200N on the bottom of a coffee mug in minutes. If the BBB says that Cru-Wear isn't that easy to sharpen, I'm taking his word for it. I also trust Larrin's toughness data.

On paper, CPM-154 and S45VN also look like they'd both offer a good mix of toughness, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Please try for 5 minutes to set aside your obsession with exotic tool steels, and objectively evaluate the best steel for the purpose of this knife.

I added S45VN and CPM-154. But I highly doubt S45VN is going to be easier to sharpen than Cruwear, and Larrin's article has it being on par with S30V for toughness.

BBB saying Cruwear is tough to sharpen is news to me. I've literally never seen anyone say Cruwear is anything but a breeze to sharpen. :confused:

Like I said, i'd buy an LC200N Salt, but if Spyderco wanted to release this as a Salt then the poll is pointless and they would just do that. They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.

I'd buy a CPM-154 Military or even an AEB-L or Elmax Military. I would love an LC200N Military Salt and even more an H1 SE Military Salt. I wouldn't buy S30V, S90V, M4, CTS-XHP, CPM-20CV, S110V, or Maxamet. I would also buy one in Vanax, Sleipner, or 52100. I'd probably even buy one with A2, 01, or D2 with the right heat treat. There are too many to list. I started with the popular ones and left the salt steels out for a reason. Can't make everyone happy with only 10 max options for the poll.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:39 am
by rabbitanarchy14
wow i am surprised at the poll results lol. cruwear and 20cv is what we have wanted for a little while. my two favorites as well m390/20cv/204p family , and Cruwear.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:56 am
by Sumdumguy
Well, I'm still voting for LC200N. I dont understand why you would think they would make a non salt LC200N version?

Everyone has been asking for a Military Salt for quite a while, this is the perfect opportunity. A Military 2 Salt with a compression lock would sell like gangbusters!

Even though you have ostracized the Salt fans because it's "pointless" to you in this steel discussion(for some reason), I will still be waving our flag.

Military 2 Salt > Any other combination.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:03 am
by T-1000
I voted s30v. I really don’t want to spend $300 on a base model user, which would be the one in my pocket day in day out.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 am
by Rutger
I am supporting LC200N too. So i just won't be voting on this poll with the current options. Not even an "other" option in it.
If you look at what price they can make the Caribbean in LC200N (and full salt) vs the stock S30V Military. I think it is really affordable stuff.

I'd also say that the current selection is way too broad. To narrow it down we'd first have to decide if the steel has to be corrosion resistant steel or not. Then decide on what wear resistant/toughness class you want to be in. Do most want a 3% vanadium class steel (I'd group 3V/4V/REX45/CPM Cruwear etc all in the same ball park) or do we select from steels more in the A11 class range for example. Currently the selection is just all over the place.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:28 am
by Sumdumguy
LC200N has been so tough in my experience, I have no use for tough non stainless steels.

It has insane corrosion resistance, toughness that can rival anything I've come across and edgeholding that is fantastic. All of that while being incredibly easy to sharpen.

I can't think of a steel that better exemplifies what is needed in a knife designed for the Military.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:31 am
by Dazen
Anything in the 20cv/204p/m390 fam has my vote. I do want a LC200N M2 but I just don’t think Spyderco will do this out of the gate.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:59 am
by curlyhairedboy
voted for cruwear, it's a nicely balanced steel. Wouldn't say no to CPM-154 either.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:07 am
by DukeNiemand
Oh boy a comp lock Millie would be my ultimate EDC knife! I'd love to see S90V, S110V, or Maxamet.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:11 am
by Evil D
I'd be ok with most any of those steels but LC is still my first choice (as in first of many choices). I really think LC is a game changer steel, it has almost no real down sides and is a great all around steel that happens to also be rust proof. It just makes sense to me that a knife like this would also be a Salt model, even if it doesn't get the banana yellow scale treatment. I'm sure we'll see all those steels in this knife eventually but if it debuted in LC/Salt I'd be much more inclined to buy. Honestly there's a lot for me to consider overall with this knife, it has huge shoes to fill and will have to blow me away if it's to dethrone my Caribbean.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:29 am
by Wartstein
T-1000 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:03 am
I voted s30v. I really don’t want to spend $300 on a base model user, which would be the one in my pocket day in day out.
That's about what I'd say too. S30V is just fine for me, and S30V Spydies not too expensive
(Did not vote though. Since I'd prefer the liner lock- over a possible comp.lock Millie, I don't want to influence a steel poll about a knife I would not get in the end anyway).

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:30 am
by VashHash
I went k390 because Maxamet wasn't an option. I've been waiting for a comp lock military and a K390 military. I thought the police 4 was enough but if i could get a K390 Military 2 with a comp lock i might retire my police 4 to every other week carry.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 am
by Ez556
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.

20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:48 am
by Rutger
Ez556 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.

20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
Why wouldn't they give the whole future military 2 line the salt DNA from the start. Also for sprints, even though some blades steels would rust. It would be a great CQI. Currently the Caribbean is cheaper to buy than a stock black S30V military.... So cost shouldn't be a big issue. Though i'd bet the Caribbean is more expensive to produce. Apparently there is plenty of profit margin left.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:10 am
by steelcity16
Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:48 am
Ez556 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.

20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
Why wouldn't they give the whole future military 2 line the salt DNA from the start. Also for sprints, even though some blades steels would rust. It would be a great CQI. Currently the Caribbean is cheaper to buy than a stock black S30V military.... So cost shouldn't be a big issue. Though i'd bet the Caribbean is more expensive to produce. Apparently there is plenty of profit margin left.

I believe it is due to galvanic corrosion. If they started with a Salt, then did a K390 sprint with the salt liner, there could be galvanic corrosion between the dissimilar metals. They would likely have to switch to a different non-stainless liner material to pair with K390 anyways to prevent this.

Like I said, I'm all for them going straight to a Salt, and I will be one of the first in line, but thats not what this poll is about and they don't need a poll to know it would sell like gangbusters. Sal asked for alternative steel choices for the rollout, not if we wanted it as a Salt.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:22 am
by Surfingringo
steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:49 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:19 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:07 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:34 pm


You left out what's probably the best steel for this application - LC200N. It's tougher than Cru-Wear, it's easier to sharpen, and it's extremely corrosion resistant. Just standing outside manning a gate in places like Iraq, in the heat of the summer, can cause one to sweat significantly. If the Military 2 is going to be a soldier's knife, it needs to be corrosion resistant, tough, and easy to sharpen. LC200N meets all three of those criteria.

I would love an LC200N Salt version, but I made the assumption that they aren't going to come out of the gate with this. This poll is for an S30V alternative for a non-Salt debut. I left S30V on there in case people want to keep it BAU.
I don't know what BAU is. If we're going for a soldier's knife an LC200N blade (with or without the rest of the knife getting the full Salt treatment) makes the most sense for the base model, for the reasons I've listed. The exotic, hard to sharpen, low corrosion resistance, carbon steels should be left for later variants for afis.

BAU = Business As Usual

I'm a big LC200N fan and huge Salt fan, but calling it tougher and easier to sharpen than Cruwear is a bit of a stretch. Not sure I agree with either of those statements, despite what one chart or another may say. Cruwear is also plenty corrosion resistant unless you are a Navy Seal or in the Coast Guard or a Fisherman or something where you will be on salt water, but even then I don't think I've seen anyone with corrosion on a Cruwear blade. Maybe Lance or Pelagic can opine here with their experience with Cruwear on the ocean. I don't oil or wipe down or do anything special to mine and they are fine, but I am not taking it out on a boat in the ocean either.

I still don't see them coming out with LC200N in a Non-Salt production model, and I don't think it will be released initially as a Salt, so I left it off for now. If they do a Salt after the fact like they did with the Native Salt, I will 100% buy one.


Interesting link on someone trying to patina Cruwear.

https://nemoknivesreview.com/2018/09/24 ... that-easy/
I would agree. I still might put Cruwear as a having slightly better sharpening response but it’s awfully close. Toughness? Both are pretty tough but neither have the toughness of H1.

Regarding corrosion resistance, Cruwear is good for a “non stainless” but I think it isn’t quite as good as some of the opinions I read on here. It behaves much like a stainless but will spot and pit faster when exposed to saltwater. I live right next to the ocean and I have a couple of Cruwear blades that live in a drawer with other knives and they constantly develop rust spots when left there for months. That doesn’t happen to any of my stainless steel blades. They never patina but they will pit given enough exposure.

Bottom line, it has excellent corrosion resistance for a tool steel but when I hear people say it performs just like stainless I know that’s an opinion that is environment dependent.

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:16 am
by Bill1170
Sumdumguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:41 pm
LC200N. Even though it's not on the list.
Same here. LC200N is balanced and rustproof. Only afi’s will want a non-stainless blade. The vast majority of users desire stainless.

Edited to add: Since LC200N isn’t on the poll, I picked CPM-20CV on the poll. Shouldn’t that be CTS?

Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:24 pm
by kennethsime
Fully admitting and owning my OCD, I'd like the Millie 2 to come out first in S30V in both Black and Digicam to match the PM2 and P3, then have a limited run of K390 with Ranger Green G10, again to match the PM2 and P3.