Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:05 am
Replaced CTS-XHP with CPM-154 since there were no votes for the former and a few mentions for the latter. You can change your vote as many times as you want.
ugaarguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:10 pmThat link is interesting, but my sweat (doing much less rigorous things post military service, in the summer humidity of the deep south and the midwest) has rusted the steel liners on a few Spydies. A respected member of this forum who's a sharpening guru says that Cru-Wear takes time, skills, and the proper tools to sharpen - https://youtu.be/YRhZCr58yb4&t=558s. I've sharpened LC200N on the bottom of a coffee mug in minutes. If the BBB says that Cru-Wear isn't that easy to sharpen, I'm taking his word for it. I also trust Larrin's toughness data.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:49 pmugaarguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:19 pmI don't know what BAU is. If we're going for a soldier's knife an LC200N blade (with or without the rest of the knife getting the full Salt treatment) makes the most sense for the base model, for the reasons I've listed. The exotic, hard to sharpen, low corrosion resistance, carbon steels should be left for later variants for afis.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:07 pm
I would love an LC200N Salt version, but I made the assumption that they aren't going to come out of the gate with this. This poll is for an S30V alternative for a non-Salt debut. I left S30V on there in case people want to keep it BAU.
BAU = Business As Usual
I'm a big LC200N fan and huge Salt fan, but calling it tougher and easier to sharpen than Cruwear is a bit of a stretch. Not sure I agree with either of those statements, despite what one chart or another may say. Cruwear is also plenty corrosion resistant unless you are a Navy Seal or in the Coast Guard or a Fisherman or something where you will be on salt water, but even then I don't think I've seen anyone with corrosion on a Cruwear blade. Maybe Lance or Pelagic can opine here with their experience with Cruwear on the ocean. I don't oil or wipe down or do anything special to mine and they are fine, but I am not taking it out on a boat in the ocean either.
I still don't see them coming out with LC200N in a Non-Salt production model, and I don't think it will be released initially as a Salt, so I left it off for now. If they do a Salt after the fact like they did with the Native Salt, I will 100% buy one.
Interesting link on someone trying to patina Cruwear.
https://nemoknivesreview.com/2018/09/24 ... that-easy/
On paper, CPM-154 and S45VN also look like they'd both offer a good mix of toughness, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Please try for 5 minutes to set aside your obsession with exotic tool steels, and objectively evaluate the best steel for the purpose of this knife.
That's about what I'd say too. S30V is just fine for me, and S30V Spydies not too expensive
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 amThey don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
Why wouldn't they give the whole future military 2 line the salt DNA from the start. Also for sprints, even though some blades steels would rust. It would be a great CQI. Currently the Caribbean is cheaper to buy than a stock black S30V military.... So cost shouldn't be a big issue. Though i'd bet the Caribbean is more expensive to produce. Apparently there is plenty of profit margin left.Ez556 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 amThe poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 amThey don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
Rutger wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:48 amWhy wouldn't they give the whole future military 2 line the salt DNA from the start. Also for sprints, even though some blades steels would rust. It would be a great CQI. Currently the Caribbean is cheaper to buy than a stock black S30V military.... So cost shouldn't be a big issue. Though i'd bet the Caribbean is more expensive to produce. Apparently there is plenty of profit margin left.Ez556 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 amThe poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 amThey don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
I would agree. I still might put Cruwear as a having slightly better sharpening response but it’s awfully close. Toughness? Both are pretty tough but neither have the toughness of H1.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:49 pmugaarguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:19 pmI don't know what BAU is. If we're going for a soldier's knife an LC200N blade (with or without the rest of the knife getting the full Salt treatment) makes the most sense for the base model, for the reasons I've listed. The exotic, hard to sharpen, low corrosion resistance, carbon steels should be left for later variants for afis.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:07 pmugaarguy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:34 pm
You left out what's probably the best steel for this application - LC200N. It's tougher than Cru-Wear, it's easier to sharpen, and it's extremely corrosion resistant. Just standing outside manning a gate in places like Iraq, in the heat of the summer, can cause one to sweat significantly. If the Military 2 is going to be a soldier's knife, it needs to be corrosion resistant, tough, and easy to sharpen. LC200N meets all three of those criteria.
I would love an LC200N Salt version, but I made the assumption that they aren't going to come out of the gate with this. This poll is for an S30V alternative for a non-Salt debut. I left S30V on there in case people want to keep it BAU.
BAU = Business As Usual
I'm a big LC200N fan and huge Salt fan, but calling it tougher and easier to sharpen than Cruwear is a bit of a stretch. Not sure I agree with either of those statements, despite what one chart or another may say. Cruwear is also plenty corrosion resistant unless you are a Navy Seal or in the Coast Guard or a Fisherman or something where you will be on salt water, but even then I don't think I've seen anyone with corrosion on a Cruwear blade. Maybe Lance or Pelagic can opine here with their experience with Cruwear on the ocean. I don't oil or wipe down or do anything special to mine and they are fine, but I am not taking it out on a boat in the ocean either.
I still don't see them coming out with LC200N in a Non-Salt production model, and I don't think it will be released initially as a Salt, so I left it off for now. If they do a Salt after the fact like they did with the Native Salt, I will 100% buy one.
Interesting link on someone trying to patina Cruwear.
https://nemoknivesreview.com/2018/09/24 ... that-easy/
Same here. LC200N is balanced and rustproof. Only afi’s will want a non-stainless blade. The vast majority of users desire stainless.