Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Choose one

CPM-CRUWEAR
23
18%
CPM-3V
6
5%
CPM-4V
6
5%
Rex45
10
8%
K390
27
21%
CPM-20CV
38
29%
CPM-154
5
4%
S90V
5
4%
S45VN
7
5%
S30V
2
2%
 
Total votes: 129

TkoK83Spy
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby TkoK83Spy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:47 pm

Very surprised to see so many 20CV votes! I have no problem with it, love my Manix in that steel. I just didn't think it was the trendy steel anymore. Glad to see it still is!
Currently have 18 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

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JacksonKnives
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby JacksonKnives » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:13 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:47 pm
Very surprised to see so many 20CV votes! I have no problem with it, love my Manix in that steel. I just didn't think it was the trendy steel anymore. Glad to see it still is!
20CV isn't trendy, but having the reputation of "boring" in this category is a good thing. It's a very well-optimized steel.

I like tough tool steels as much as the next guy, but stain resistance is more important to me for a knife this big.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby Dazen » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:35 pm

This poll needs to be redone with just Cruwear, 20cv and LC200N! I

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thewoodpecker
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby thewoodpecker » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Would love to see LC200N Salt model but for the options listed I chose K390.
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby carrot » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:42 pm

I have to be honest. I'm not sure I'd be interested in a compression lock Military. I like the Military exactly as it is, quirks and all.

But if it were in a tantalizing steel... I guess I'd have to get one anyway...

20CV has been pretty good for me so far in a knife I have from another maker. I think it would be nice to see on the Military as well.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 pm

I went with S45VN. in order to support the work they are already doing in it and feel it is a natural step up from S30V as the base steel especially since it is manufactured purposefully for the cutlery industry. As for the compression lock only if they can make it like the Smock otherwise I do not want it.
:)

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby ugaarguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Ez556 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.

20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
I don't think Spyderco would make this knife first in CruWear, either, but it's leading this popularity contest poll. People are voting for what they want, rather what's best for the intended end use.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby blues » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:48 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:36 pm
I don't think Spyderco would make this knife first in CruWear, either, but it's leading this popularity contest poll. People are voting for what they want, rather what's best for the intended end use.
And what is the intended end use?

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby ugaarguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:07 pm

blues wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:48 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:36 pm
I don't think Spyderco would make this knife first in CruWear, either, but it's leading this popularity contest poll. People are voting for what they want, rather what's best for the intended end use.
And what is the intended end use?
From the Military product description at https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=19
A cornerstone in Spyderco's Save and Serve line up, the Military Model came about after someone asked Spyderco's owner Sal Glesser, "If your son were going into the military what folding knife would you send him with?" For certain, it had to meet the requirements of a high-performance, light-weight folder designed for hard use.
.
My strong preference for LC200N is based on my four year enlistment in the USAF, with two deployments to Iraq. If my niece or nephew was deploying, I'd get them a Caribbean or a Native 5 Salt, and I'd dye the handles dyed black for uniform compliance.

As fellow veteran from another country has a similar opinion.
jacala wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:12 am
If I was in the Military again, and going overseas to a war zone:
I would choose a Spyderco Military with a steel(blade) that I could sharpen on the nearest rock,
or a generic sharpener from in my pocket.
So that means LC200 or H1.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:12 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:36 pm
Ez556 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am
They don't need a poll to know a Compression Lock Military Salt in LC200N is a slam dunk. And again, and I don't see them doing a non-salt LC200N knife as most people at this point associate LC200N with Salt and they would likely have people complaining about rusty liners. If you are neglecting your knife enough to rust Cruwear, then you a going to rust the liners in a non-Salt LC200N knife just as badly.
The poll was opining about the debut, production steel for the Military 2, and I agree that LC200N likely wouldn’t be something they would start with for exactly what steelcity said. I know that most of us would be fine with them using an LC200N blade in a knife that isn’t totally “Salt”, but that would be a nightmare for Spyderco to deal with because everyone would treat the entire knife like it’s corrosion free just because of the blade. And yeah, they could just make the whole knife Salt like the Caribbean but again, this is for the debut steel, and I doubt they wanna debut a new model like the Military 2 as a “Salt” variation. I completely agree that a Military 2 Salt would be awesome, I agree it’s a great steel for soldiers, I just don’t think they’d do it first.

20CV is probably the next most corrosion resistant steel on the list is it not? I thought that it was an extremely corrosion resistant stainless steel. And I thought M390/20CV/204P isn't a total nightmare to sharpen either.
I don't think Spyderco would make this knife first in CruWear, either, but it's leading this popularity contest poll. People are voting for what they want, rather what's best for the intended end use.

Why not? They have done the Gayle Bradleys in M4 and Tuff in 3V both out of the gate. Para 3 LW is BD1N and Manix LW was BD1. All tool steels more corrosion prone than Cruwear.

If making a compression lock Salt in Golden was easy then why isn't there a PM2 Salt or Para 3 Salt? Does Spyderco hate money? There has to be a reason we haven't seen this out of Golden yet because those would likely be their best selling models of all time. Hence why it is not on the list. The purpose of this poll has been stated many times over. Feel free to make a challenger poll if you aren't satisfied with this one.
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blues
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby blues » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:21 pm

@ugaarguy

Yes, I remember that quote regarding the Military. I wasn't sure if that was what you were alluding to.

My personal opinion, while not based upon military service but 20+ years of law enforcement, including SRT, is that it depends.

I have numerous WWII era military issued pocketknives which were all carbon steel and have held up great over the years. (These are not mint versions but ones which were carried in the field.) So, even simple carbon steels are not quite prone to simply self-destruct. It goes without saying that the fixed blades were carbon steel as well. And they are easy to sharpen. (I used to own many carbon steel knives from the late 19th century that have also held up to the ravages of time and the elements as well.)

So I don't specifically disagree with your take, and I'll look forward to trying a Salt down the road. (And thank you for your service.)

My point is that steels like 52100 are easily sharpened and tough as well. (Though, as you know, not particularly corrosion resistant.) So, tool steel, carbon steel and high alloy steels can all fit the bill...depending upon what the primary attribute desired is.

In the end, I would have no issues carrying a Cru-Wear blade into harm's way. It's tough, sharpens and cuts well and has a reasonable level of corrosion resistance. (I'd want a diamond sharpener for ease of maintenance in the field.) I have no experience with LC200N but look forward to changing that.

Finally, I'm not sure that I consider the Military a particularly hard use knife...but everyone's definition of hard use is different. And I haven't used my Militarys hard...yet.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby ugaarguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:51 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:12 pm
Why not? They have done the Gayle Bradleys in M4 and Tuff in 3V both out of the gate. Para 3 LW is BD1N and Manix LW was BD1. All tool steels more corrosion prone than Cruwear.

If making a compression lock Salt in Golden was easy then why isn't there a PM2 Salt or Para 3 Salt? Does Spyderco hate money? There has to be a reason we haven't seen this out of Golden yet because those would likely be their best selling models of all time. Hence why it is not on the list. The purpose of this poll has been stated many times over. Feel free to make a challenger poll if you aren't satisfied with this one.
BD1 and BD1N are both tool steels? That's news to me. BD1 and BD1N are more corrosion prone than Cru-Wear? Please show me a source and cure my ignorance. Carpenter makes it point to address corrosion resistance, or that the steel is stainless, in their descriptions of BD1 and BD1N, but they include nothing about corrosion resistance in the PD#1 (Cru-Wear analogue) description. Crucible likewise includes nothing about corrosion resistance in the CPM Cru-Wear data sheet, but they note that CPM 20CV "provides outstanding corrosion resistance".

Ref:
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... d1n-alloy/
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... bd1-alloy/
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... pd1-alloy/
https://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheet ... ar2015.pdf
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataShee ... 2020CV.pdf

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steelcity16
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:29 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:51 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:12 pm
Why not? They have done the Gayle Bradleys in M4 and Tuff in 3V both out of the gate. Para 3 LW is BD1N and Manix LW was BD1. All tool steels more corrosion prone than Cruwear.

If making a compression lock Salt in Golden was easy then why isn't there a PM2 Salt or Para 3 Salt? Does Spyderco hate money? There has to be a reason we haven't seen this out of Golden yet because those would likely be their best selling models of all time. Hence why it is not on the list. The purpose of this poll has been stated many times over. Feel free to make a challenger poll if you aren't satisfied with this one.
BD1 and BD1N are both tool steels? That's news to me. BD1 and BD1N are more corrosion prone than Cru-Wear? Please show me a source and cure my ignorance. Carpenter makes it point to address corrosion resistance, or that the steel is stainless, in their descriptions of BD1 and BD1N, but they include nothing about corrosion resistance in the PD#1 (Cru-Wear analogue) description. Crucible likewise includes nothing about corrosion resistance in the CPM Cru-Wear data sheet, but they note that CPM 20CV "provides outstanding corrosion resistance".

Ref:
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... d1n-alloy/
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... bd1-alloy/
https://www.carpentertechnology.com/en/ ... pd1-alloy/
https://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheet ... ar2015.pdf
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataShee ... 2020CV.pdf

The Data Sheet for BD1 says it performs similarly to tool steel, which is my experience in my Manix LW, so I guess I never even knew it wasn't technically a tool steel. Nor did I know it was supposed to be a stainless steel since mine showed patina faster than my Cruwear and other members have complained about corrsosion in the past. I've always just assumed it was a tool steel because it acts like one (tough, easy to sharpen, patinas) and it inexpensive like the basic ones. Interesting. I still like BD1. Its good stuff. Thanks for the learning. Just keep in mind that spec sheets and charts don't always translate to real world experiences once these steels have been transformed into blades. So many variables to account for.
RadioactiveSpyder wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:23 pm
For me, BD1 holds a decent enough edge, not sure it's quite up to the snuff of VG-10 (which I like very much, along with N690Co), but it is the ONLY Spyderco steel I have rust issues with. YMMV but it's a steel I tend to avoid, and several of us have lamented the fact the new lightweight black Manix 2 will be sporting this steel, although maybe the coating will alleviate much of the rusting issue. Cheers, Radioactive :)
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby Pelagic » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:44 pm

I love how popular this is. Personally, I'd prefer having 2 of these. But if I can only have one (the other being k390), it would be 20cv. When you love a model, it's good to have at least one you don't have to constantly care for.
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Vivi
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby Vivi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:47 pm

BD1 is a highly stainless steel. I've used it from several brands and I've found it at least on par with VG10. It is absolutely not a tool steel and shouldn't patina under normal use. Like VG10, what corrosion it does get will be pin prick rust circles that wipe off with a damp towel.

Personally I think a BD1 entry level model makes a lot of sense for models bound to receive a lot of sprints. Most average knife users will find the lower price and easier sharpening of BD1 appealing VS S30V. Most knife buyers aren't AFI's that turn their nose up at well balanced budget stainless steels like BD1, VG10 and 440C.

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steelcity16
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:17 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:47 pm

BD1 is a highly stainless steel. I've used it from several brands and I've found it at least on par with VG10. It is absolutely not a tool steel and shouldn't patina under normal use. Like VG10, what corrosion it does get will be pin prick rust circles that wipe off with a damp towel.

Personally I think a BD1 entry level model makes a lot of sense for models bound to receive a lot of sprints. Most average knife users will find the lower price and easier sharpening of BD1 appealing VS S30V. Most knife buyers aren't AFI's that turn their nose up at well balanced budget stainless steels like BD1, VG10 and 440C.

I am not sure I agree that this model is bound to receive A LOT of sprints. A lot of retailers are hesitant to do Military Exclusives because of slow sales due to price and size/blade length. The last CTS-204P Military is held in high regard, but that exclusive sat around for over a year I believe. I don't know if adding a comp lock will do enough to drastically change long terms sales to where lots of sprints/exclusives will happen. I can see a few out of the gate while the hype is still strong though. On a similar note, I am curious as to if anyone has commissioned a Native Chief exclusive? Or if we will ever see a Police LW exclusive? Large blades don't get much love as you know with your yearly heartache over no new Manix XL exclusives!

Have you carried BD1 and Cruwear enough to opine on their corrosion resistance to your acid rain sweat?? :D I will say that my Cruwear Delica has shown more re-activeness than any of my Golden Cruwear, so I am wondering if a different heat treat was used in Seki? :confused: Heat treats can make some difference here. Nathan Carothers uses the "Delta" heat treat on this 3V fixed blades that improves corrosion resistance vs the standard heat treated 3V.

"The blade is made of 3/16" 3V with a heat treat that has been optimized to maximize edge stability in rough use. Despite being relatively thin it is durable. You can baton with it. You might damage the fine edge if you set your mind to it, but the knife itself is practically unbreakable.
A side effect of this heat treat is a higher percentage of free chromium, so although it is not stainless, it is nearly so." - Nathan

A Delta 3V Military sounds pretty awesome to me. I would love to see Sal collaborate with Nathan on a project to use his 3V in a model like this.
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 pm

Interesting results compared to the Shaman Poll from last year. M4 didn't even get a single vote on this new one so I replaced it with S45VN. What a difference a year makes!


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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:25 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:44 pm

I love how popular this is. Personally, I'd prefer having 2 of these. But if I can only have one (the other being k390), it would be 20cv. When you love a model, it's good to have at least one you don't have to constantly care for.

Have you left the Cruwear Nation for good Pelagic?? :(
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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby dj moonbat » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:28 pm

S45VN. Like the Milly 2 itself, it’s the next step in the family.

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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll

Postby sok » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:21 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 pm
Interesting results compared to the Shaman Poll from last year. M4 didn't even get a single vote on this new one so I replaced it with S45VN. What a difference a year makes!


Image
The M4 killer took M4’s place.


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