Your "return ethics"?

[Evil D]

I guess you mean if I just don't like it? This has only happened a couple times in my earlier days exploring the brand and those knives were bought from a local brick and mortar store that was happy with exchanging them, but I did have to take a cut on the price because he was only willing to resell them as used knives no matter how they looked (so his ethics are pretty solid). I have never once returned a knife from an online vendor because I do a LOT of research before I purchase anything and I'm pretty in tune with my own tastes so it's rare that I buy something that I don't know ahead of time that I'll love. More often than not for me it's the opposite, I buy something I'm pretty sure I'll like and I end up really blown away by it.

But, to try and answer your question better, I think as long as I haven't actually cut anything or carried it in my pocket enough to get pocket lint all inside it I'm ok with returning it. I'm not crazy about the idea of someone flicking the crap out of a knife that I end up buying so I'd personally avoid that stuff if I thought I might return it.

[Pelagic]

Something would have to be majorly wrong and unfixable by myself for me to send it anywhere. If I'm keeping the knife it's going to get used and eventually scratched and banged up, so what's the point? If I ever got into collecting, yeah I could see myself sending a Paysan or Nirvana back that had minor issues. I guess it totally depends on the issue. But I've certainly received knives with imperfections and never sent one in.

My question is not about returning knives that have an issue.

It´s about the rare case where you maybe have to decide if you like a Spyderco by just seeing it in "real life" or if you rather buy a different model.

And you´d return it of course absoultely unused other then having held and opened/closed it

Given, as in my case, that you just can´t afford many Spydercos, that there is absolutely no store or chance to have a look at it, that selling on the secondary market is very difficult, and that of course you don't plan on returning but just see it as a last ditch possibility.

Again, I myself am not sure about the "correct ethics" here, and so I appreciate your and any input!!

Oh, no I never return a knife I simply don't like. I sell it and take a loss (unless it's a sprint run or exclusive, where I typically get my money back) and keep going. After seeing videos and doing research I usually have a good idea as to what I'm getting into.

[JonLeBlanc]

My question is not about returning knives that have an issue.

It´s about the rare case where you maybe have to decide if you like a Spyderco by just seeing it in "real life" or if you rather buy a different model.

And you´d return it of course absoultely unused other then having held and opened/closed it

Given, as in my case, that you just can´t afford many Spydercos, that there is absolutely no store or chance to have a look at it, that selling on the secondary market is very difficult, and that of course you don't plan on returning but just see it as a last ditch possibility.

Again, I myself am not sure about the "correct ethics" here, and so I appreciate your and any input!!

Oh jeez, yeah no offense or judgment meant to anyone who does that (seriously) but no, I would never do.

[Pelagic]

Unfortunately you have to buy a knife to feel it in hand these days. There simply aren't many sporting goods or B&M stores that carry spyderco knives, and the ones that do won't have a stupidly large selection. That's the price we pay for getting the convenience and competitive prices of online shopping.

As an example, I bought a Native Cheif. I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. I haven't used it and am most likely going to sell it when I get around to it. I will be taking a lo$$ when I sell it but that's life.

Same thing with a titanium military I recently picked up. It was advertised as post CQI, and arrived pre-CQI. Bummer, but not the end of the world. It'll be sold soon. But being discontinued I may not take a huge loss selling that one.

[ChrisinHove]

My first Spyderco came about because the knife I originally ordered was such poor quality and as blunt as a spoon. Totally unacceptable.

At that time I didn’t have a SM or perhaps I may have just sharpened it, but I sent it back and put the refund towards a Delica. An expensive decision, as it transpires.

Buyers remorse? Never happens with a Spyderco.

[The Meat man]

Happily I've never had to (or wanted to) return any knife. I do have preferences but those preferences usually only surface after using the knife in hand for awhile. I've never opened up a brand new Spyderco and been disappointed with it enough to want to send it back.

I understand what Wartstein (and others) are doing and personally, I see nothing wrong nor selfish with it at all.
If the company's return policy allows it, it's perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, to return an item that you don't like. It doesn't necessarily have to be defective and most return policies understand this and allow for it, as they should, since the end goal of the transaction is to have a satisfied customer.

Of course it's different if you actually use the item or tamper with it in any way but that's not what this discussion is about.

[JuPaul]

I have returned flawed knives to a dealer in the past, and was clear about the reason for return. But I haven't done that with spyderco knives. I've always sent them straight to spyderco. Just seems easier to me - go straight to the source - even if it means waiting a few weeks for turnaround. As for spydie knives with no flaws that I just felt weren't for me, I never return them. I resell them, always, and list them as pre-owned if I've done anything at all to them (oiled the pivot/blade, sliced paper, carried it at all, etc). Sometimes this might mean I take a $10-20 hit, but I consider that a test run fee, and part of the hobby for me.

With that said, if I lived overseas and couldn't easily ship something to spyderco or resell it, I might be much more inclined to use a dealer return policy. But that'd also limit my ability to test run a knife, which wouldn't be as fun!

[Surfingringo]

Something would have to be majorly wrong and unfixable by myself for me to send it anywhere. If I'm keeping the knife it's going to get used and eventually scratched and banged up, so what's the point? If I ever got into collecting, yeah I could see myself sending a Paysan or Nirvana back that had minor issues. I guess it totally depends on the issue. But I've certainly received knives with imperfections and never sent one in.

I was going to write up a response but this pretty much sums up my experience too. I don’t think I have ever returned a knife for any reason. I don’t have any strong opinions on the morality or ethics of buying a knife with the idea of returning it if you don’t like it but it’s just not something that ever crosses my mind. If I buy it I’m going to use it. It would have to have a major issue.


Edit-actually I just lied (about never having returned a knife). I bought a Maxamet Manix a couple of years ago and after two days of carry (and no use) I looked at it to find there was no pivot screw. Literally gone. I was making a visit to see the Spyderco crew the next month anyway and just brought the knife with me and they of course took care of me. :spyder:

[cycleguy]

I'm surprised and glad to see that so many respect their retailers and the purchasing process. Those that abuse return policies probably aren't that many in numbers, but they do exist. For some reason these types upset me...

Keep up the integrity...

CG

[cycleguy]

Unfortunately you have to buy a knife to feel it in hand these days. There simply aren't many sporting goods or B&M stores that carry spyderco knives, and the ones that do won't have a stupidly large selection. That's the price we pay for getting the convenience and competitive prices of online shopping.

+1

Here is one internet retailers written return policy:

Returns Policy
We understand that buying a knife on the internet may not be the best way to know how it feels in your hand. (That’s why we offer a 100% store credit option!)

If you don’t love your knife, please let us know. Our customer service team is ready to solve your problems quickly, efficiently and with as little hassle as possible.

We’re happy to accept returns within 14 days of the order being delivered for 100% store credit OR a refund minus a 10% restocking fee. (Minimum fee of $5.00. Maximum fee of $50.00).

It is nice to know that they acknowledge and understand the situation from the buyers side. Hope buyers can see it from their side as well.

CG

[The Deacon]

When I’ve considered sending knives in to Spyderco, this is how I hoped they would be received.

I then weigh that up with the possibility of being told “Sorry, but....”.

I mostly only buy Spyderco these days. I dare not risk diminishing my respect for the brand!

I strongly suspect that the only folks who get a "Sorry, but" response from Spyderco are those who either don't understand the difference between a minor cosmetic imperfection and a genuine defect in workmanship or materials or have attempted to fix it themselves before sending it in and made it impossible for Spyderco to tell if the issue was there before they tinkered with it.

[cycleguy]

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[cycleguy]

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[Sharp Guy]

Out of 100+ knives I haven't returned one to the dealer yet and have no plans to. I've actually only had two that had an issue. One I fixed myself and the other went to Spyderco's W&R department.

[Wartstein]

Unfortunately you have to buy a knife to feel it in hand these days. ....

I'm surprised and glad to see that so many respect their retailers and the purchasing process. Those that abuse return policies probably aren't that many in numbers, but they do exist. For some reason these types upset me...

Keep up the integrity...

CG

....

I, personally, think there are some really selfish and shady return tactics used in the knife industry these days. I try to avoid returning things for petty reasons. Buying more than one of a specific model just to fondle them all and cherry pick the one you want to keep and then return the rest is incredibly selfish behavior, in my opinion. I would also consider buying a knife just to experiment with the ergonomics of it in the same category.

Cutting something isn't the only means of using a knife. I'd consider just opening and closing the knife using it. When I buy a brand new product online, I expect to receive a brand new product.

Folks (those I quoted above, but also all others who responded) thanks for all your honest replies!

You know, most times I am rather sure about what is right and what is wrong for me, and it is important for me to stick to this "personal rules and ethics" and be an honest guy.
But here I am really looking for some advice, I guess, cause I just don´t have a 100% clear opinion.

Cycleguy,may I ask: Do you feel that from what I described how I currently handle returns, am "one who abuses return policies" (honest question, and I can take any honest reply, no problem!) ?

I think the thing is: I literally don´t know anyone in my personal life who is into knives, or would ever order one (maybe they´d buy a 10 Euro cheapo in some gasstation..).
But of course all people I know order other stuff online all the time. And literally everyone, even the most honest ones, often times return stuff they don´t like, it´s just the way it IS at least here in Austria, and in fact how online stores run their business.
So my mountaineering buddies would order lets say a new pack, have a look at it, and return it,if it does not meet their preferences. Or ski-pants. Or whatever.

But I don´t know how this is concerning knives. I don´t know anyone who is into knives. For a long time I saw knives differently, and would never have allowed myself to return one, even if it was totally untouched.
Then, as said, I thought: Why? As long as I do nothing quality control would do anyway, in fact even less, just hold the knife and open it one or two times, why should a knife be different to lets say a pack?
The more so, since I am 100% sure that I myself receive "return-items" when it comesto knives, and have no problem whatsoever, as long as they are in fact new and not used for cutting .
And, again: Since I see it more as a last possibility in the back of my mind. I´d never order a knife just to handle it and plan to return it anyway. I´d never order several knives to choose one and return the rest.

(And, as said: I thought about it, and in fact I did only once return a knife immidiately and totally unused to the dealer: A Manix. I held it, and knew in a second I would not carry it for its weight,so I returned it and got a Manix LW instead (which I sold off eventually on the secondary market - which was hard and took a long time, as it is here in Austria).

EDIT and OFF TOPIC: If any Austrian or European forum members happen to know sales platforms (secondary market) besides the Austrian "Willhaben" and "Shpock" I´d appreciate it if you´d share those.

[Slash]

I've only returned 1 so far. Ordered a paysan from one place then found better deal and ordered from them. They were same companies just using different websites. Asked the first one not to ship as it wasn't even shipped out yet. They told me sorry can't do that. So, got both the knives and looked at them closely and they both had the lock clicking thing going on with them. So, was thinking about sending both back in fear of lock failures in the future with more wear and seeing and reading some peoples issues with them. Decided to keep one and give it a chance. Needless to say I did keep the one that had a well centered blade...
I don't and never have cherry picked my knives. This was a different situation as the seller shouldn't have even shipped the knife in the first place as I requested them. Certainly wasn't going to keep a $500 knife that I wasn't very comfortable keeping and using. I edc the other one and happy with it so far. I use a different method to disengage the lock where I don't press down on lock bar but rather kinda dig my thumbnail or fingernail down and press it over to not put pressure on the blade tang.
I've had many others that I just ended up selling instead of returning. Some had minor issues nothing was ever a safety concern. Mostly just cosmetic things like a factory slip on the grinder that I sharpened out and sold. Some might have been poorly centered blades I didn't want to keep in my collection if I didn't use. Some just sold to get something else I felt I wanted more or check out at the time. Think I have over 60 knives. Maybe 20-30 are spyderco. So, I'm happy with most...

[wrdwrght]

Online? If an item is defective or is not what I ordered, it goes back. I’ve been inordinately lucky.

I’ve only returned one Spydie. An Assist, to KnifeWorks, because it was “defective”. Had a hairline crack in the FRN.

Roger sent me a replacement even before he received the original. And, here, I must say that the replacement had the very same hairline crack...by design! It was the access cover for the glass-breaker. :o Well, my mistake was honest, if careless.

Props to KnifeWorks’ CS, and my apologies.

[standy99]

After seeing videos and doing research I usually have a good idea as to what I'm getting into.

This

I have usually compared it to what I have and looked for images of it in someone’s hand or scaled to a knife I have.

Have a firm buy once buy forever policy at home and the misses and I constantly chat about how we can buy the best of something to last. Hence Spyderco H1 for the salt water we are in a fair bit.

Note: by sending it back your not really supporting Spyderco more as your still only buying one knife.

[Wartstein]

After seeing videos and doing research I usually have a good idea as to what I'm getting into.

This

I have usually compared it to what I have and looked for images of it in someone’s hand or scaled to a knife I have.

Have a firm buy once buy forever policy at home and the misses and I constantly chat about how we can buy the best of something to last. Hence Spyderco H1 for the salt water we are in a fair bit.

Note: by sending it back your not really supporting Spyderco more as your still only buying one knife.

Actually I DO, indirectly. Cause the opportunity in the back of my mind, that I COULD send it back as a very last possibility can help a not too wealthy guy to place an order in the first place (and believe me, in Europe Spydies are more expensive by a lot... (though worth every cent, don´t get me wrong))

But again, I actually only did it once and am uncertain about my approach anyway, that´s why I am asking and really appreciate your reply!

[cycleguy]

I have one internet retailer that I have purchased 18 knives from over the past couple years. Two have gone back ... I requested store credit vs a refund in each case. 1) The first case was a fixed blade where the photograph of the knife was enhanced which altered both the color and the sheen of the knife. I felt this was misleading and grounds for a legitimate return. 2) The second case was a Spyderco. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the knife (a pristine sample), I just didn't like the feel of the knife in my hand. (There is no excuse for this with me and a Spyderco as I live near SFO, so I felt really crappy about returning it). I was upfront with the retailer and they refunded my purchase despite requesting store credit. Having over a dozen purchases with them at that time and planning to make more, I felt a sense of buyer/seller relationship and felt they were doing me a favor which they had every grounds not to. The returned funds went back to them on a CF Chaparral (not a pristine sample) and shortly thereafter more funds into a LW Chaparral (a pristine sample). 3) I almost had a third return with them which was a Delica zome which was a poor sample of zome (nearly non-existant on one side of the knife). From the looks of the internal packaging, someone else had obviously felt that way about it before. I thought about requesting an exchange but ultimately kept it thinking I would replace with aftermarket scales of some sort, which has yet to happen.

I had a Delica Cruwear purchase with a different retailer where it sat around for a month or better waiting for the remainder of the order to arrive in stock. I finally dropped the other item from the order and asked them to ship the knife. It was obvious that during that month someone had cherry picked the one I had purchased as the internal packaging was out of order and the silica packet missing. The one I received was not a pristine sample, but obviously it wasn't going back.

I have no interest in ever returning a knife but realize there is a small chance that it may happen, so: I wash my hands prior to unpacking, carefully lay out the packaging so it can be repackaged exactly as I received it, hold the knife for fit in hand, examine for build quality fit and finish and edge, open and close it a few times if a folder, and make one pass thru the corner of paper. At this point I know if it is a keeper or not. If not a keeper, then the handle is wiped free of any finger prints careful not to remove factory lubricant from the blade and placed back in its packaging as it came.

The other knives I have parted with, went on the bay.

CG

P.S. For clarification:
Pristine = the ones that people want to add to their collection/personal museum as they are perfect or nearly perfect
Not Pristine/Less than Pristine = not defective, still high quality & well done but not perfect (example, edge bevel may not be perfect, blade centering may be two knat's asses off dead center)
Defective = something is very wrong with it and it should be sent back (I haven't had any of these with Spyderco) :)