Your "return ethics"?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:14 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:57 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:18 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 pm

j

I see what you are saying, and I agree that "cherry picking" (i.e., buying multiple knives just to pick the best one) is ethically questionable. However I don't think that is what the OP was doing. (I am open to correction on this OP)

No matter how much research you do, no matter how many YouTube videos you watch, ultimately, you will never know exactly how the knife feels until you get it in hand. And sometimes, despite all your research, it just isn't the right fit. This isn't cherry picking.

In the above case, which is, I believe, what Wartstein was talking about, as long as it is in keeping with the retailer's return policy, there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with returning an item whatsoever. In this case, the retailers absolutely do make the rules. It's their return policy; they are at perfect liberty to make it as they wish; if they consider "not liking it" a valid reason for returning, then it is a valid reason for returning.

Again, Wartstein, feel free to correct me if my understanding of your scenario is incorrect.
Connor, you got me perfectly right.

I'd never buy multiple knives in order to "cherry pick"
I'd even never order a knife I am not sure I like and planning on sending it back if I don't

All I am talking about is: Ordering a new knife model you did your research on, are almost 100 % sure you'll keep at least for a while, but have in the back of your mind as a very last possibility to make use of the return option that is a legit part of the totally fair and square deal you officially made after all.

For me that leads to that I am purchasing (and keeping) MORE knives than I would otherwise, so a win for Spyderco, the retailers and me.

And, again: I only ONCE ever returned a knife and got another instead from the very same retailer...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Kels73
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Kels73 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:15 pm

My primary ethic is to honor the dealer's return policy. If that return policy allows me to return a knife simply because I'm not happy with it, then I have no problem doing so.

The downside of buying an item online is that I can't handle it in advance. A good return policy compensates for this. Personally, I won't return a knife because of buyer's remorse; however, if handling a knife quickly reveals that it is not going to work for me, then I will. Poor ergonomics would be an example of this.

The return policy constitutes an agreement between the dealer and the buyer. I see no issue with returning a knife when doing so falls within the stated parameters of that agreement.

I think a part of the problem is that some dealers will accept a returned knife that was obviously used, and then resell it as new product. The result is a second buyer who is very unhappy because he received a used knife. In my opinion, this is a foul on the part of the original buyer for returning the knife, and it is a foul on the part of the dealer for accepting it.

This example highlights the fact that many dealers have sensible, well-written return policies. The problem is not with the policy, but with a failure to honor it. This brings me back full circle to my opening statement, namely that "My primary ethic is to honor the dealer's return policy." When buyers AND dealers do this, problems will be greatly reduced.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:21 pm

dsvirsky wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:03 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am
If it has a CC number, it goes back.

Otherwise, I've never returned a knife.
If you don't mind my asking, "Why?"
It's like if your chick had some other guys name tattooed on her. Not gonna happen!

It feels like it's someone else's knife.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Spook410 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:23 pm

While I agree that the vendor has a business plan that may include liberal returns and the buyer is only bound by the contract they entered into with the purchase, this has all, IMHO, pretty much gone south in the age of Amazon.

Too often I buy an item from an online seller and it's obviously a return. I don't want a return because frequently the original packaging is missing, accessories have been attached/unattached, and I just don't know where it's been. I'm paying for new-in-the-box-original-wrapper and that's what I want. I would prefer to do business with a vendor that has a less liberal return policy and I tire of people who think it's OK for them to abuse this model by playing the role of consumer tourist. Yes.. you can do it. But don't think you're not hurting the rest of us. You raise prices and you invite abuse from those who won't be so careful with what they are, on a whim, returning.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:36 pm

You always take a risk buying anything. After hearing mixed opinions on spyderco's DLC and corrosion resistance, I can say that my first experience on the St Nick's 4V Shaman is that the DLC does close to nothing to prevent rust. I have hardly used the knife, but it has been carried about 4 days worth. It has been cold during this time and I have not sweated whatsoever. It still has the factory edge and is extremely sharp (I stropped it briefly upon arrival). There are many more spots of rust on the DLC than the bevel. I took pictures but it's hard to see. I will take more pictures once the pitting is obvious and large.

Once I pay for something, I consider the money gone. I don't even bank on a product arriving in the mail, let alone a guarantee of quality. All that is pure luxury. My first experience with Spyderco's DLC is supremely abysmal (so far), but you'll never see me send the knife in because I'm unsatisfied. At least now I know not to hesitate when I want to regrind the blade to make it thinner bte. There appears to be no point in preserving the DLC coating.
Last edited by Pelagic on Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:47 pm

I always interject when the discussion on DLC turns to aiding corrosion resistance.

The only reason to have DLC is if you are frequently using it in situations where giving away a light signature/reflection can get you killed.

Or if you like the way it looks.

I fall into neither category.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:52 pm

Spook410 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:23 pm
While I agree that the vendor has a business plan that may include liberal returns and the buyer is only bound by the contract they entered into with the purchase, this has all, IMHO, pretty much gone south in the age of Amazon.

Too often I buy an item from an online seller and it's obviously a return. I don't want a return because frequently the original packaging is missing, accessories have been attached/unattached, and I just don't know where it's been. I'm paying for new-in-the-box-original-wrapper and that's what I want. I would prefer to do business with a vendor that has a less liberal return policy and I tire of people who think it's OK for them to abuse this model by playing the role of consumer tourist. Yes.. you can do it. But don't think you're not hurting the rest of us. You raise prices and you invite abuse from those who won't be so careful with what they are, on a whim, returning.

Your post gave me certainly food for thought, but partly I really don't see the logic here (no offense meant):.

You are basically saying, one should not do something in a totally correct, fair and agreed on way just because some bad people do it in a not correct way (one should not as a total exception be allowed to return a totally unused knife if it absolutely does not fit and despite having a totally fair and open deal that includes that option, just because some others return used knives??)

Sounds a bit like someone should NOT buy ONE Crucarta sprint run Shaman just because some bad guys buy twenty and sell them later for unreasonable prices...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby vivi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:36 pm
You always take a risk buying anything. After hearing mixed opinions on spyderco's DLC and corrosion resistance, I can say that my first experience on the St Nick's 4V Shaman is that the DLC does close to nothing to prevent rust. I have hardly used the knife, but it has been carried about 4 days worth. It has been cold during this time and I have not sweated whatsoever. It still has the factory edge and is extremely sharp (I stropped it briefly upon arrival). There are many more spots of rust on the DLC than the bevel. I took pictures but it's hard to see. I will take more pictures once the pitting is obvious and large.

Once I pay for something, I consider the money gone. I don't even bank on a product arriving in the mail, let alone a guarantee of quality. All that is pure luxury. My first experience with Spyderco's DLC is supremely abysmal (so far), but you'll never see me send the knife in because I'm unsatisfied. At least now I know not to hesitate when I want to regrind the blade to make it thinner bte. There appears to be no point in preserving the DLC coating.
Dang, that's wild. DLC is a complete game changer for me.
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Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Tucson Tom » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:25 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 am

I begin to wonder if there are really maybe even slight "cultural differences"? Where I live, literally and absolutely no one I know would have any problems whatsoever to return (unused!) items to an online store. It is just not an issue at all... Any person I´d ask here if it is ok to return an unused item / knife would rather be surprised by that question, cause it is just how everybody does,cause it is part of the deal and one actually PAYS for the opportunity to return items, and partly BECAUSE of that opportunity people order from online retailers and make their businesses thrive...
This is interesting and thought provoking. You have my mind looking at things in a different way, which is always wonderful.

There are many sorts of culture contrasts. You are describing Europe vs USA. Another is right here, the older generation vs the younger.

I am an older fellow, as I wager many on this list are, and my ideas about what are right and wrong in this area were formed in the era before there were online sales, and before retail stores offered no questions asked return policies. I could do the usual knee jerk thing and complain about the decline in morals of the younger generation.

Instead though, I am turning around and asking myself if I am out of step with the times. I should talk with my son who handles mail order sales where he works. Maybe in this new internet age, it is acceptable and normal to shop online in this way (buy things and return them if you don't like them). Maybe the retailers actually think this way themselves and expect this and it is part of their business plan. They spell it all out in their return policy. Maybe they expect people to shop in this way.

Even if so, I don't think I would ever be able to embrace this way of buying things (ordering something up front, knowing I may return it if I just don't like it). But I am looking at this in a new light. If the return policy says they accept returns in some time window for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all, returning something you just don't like cannot be viewed as a moral violation.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Spook410 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:00 pm

You cannot dispute that returning something merely on preference drives prices up. A business has to pay for processing those returns and that cost gets passed along. So those that do this are, in fact, impacting the rest of us. And regardless of all the rationales, I find it to be an unsavory practice and wish vendors would impose an appropriate restocking fee.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby AshK » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:13 pm

Great thread! There are some thought provoking and interesting ideas here.

My return ethics are simple. I won't return a knife because I don't like it, whether that be ergos, blade shape, overall design whatever. At the end of the day, I chose to buy it, now I get to live with it or sell it.

On the other hand, I have zero problem returning a knife because it has issues.

I've returned multiple knives because of bad grinds, one because the action felt like the pivot was running on sand, and one because of a genuine and known manufacturing problem. I'm not going to carry the can for a manufacturer's lousy QC, and unfortunately, the dealer's job is to be the middle man between the manufacturer and myself.

But I've kept far more knives than I've returned, that's for sure. I generally ask the dealer to briefly inspect the knife for grind accuracy, action smoothness, and blade play, which keeps the returns down to a minimum.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:57 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:18 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 pm

To me returning a knife just because you do not like something is not acceptable, there must be a flaw otherwise I just suck it up take my losses and hope to recover most of my principal selling on eBay.
If you bought something from Wal-Mart, and afterwards discovered that it didn't meet your needs or wants as you expected, would you not return it? (Of course assuming that you do not use or tinker with it, and that functionally there is nothing wrong with the product, just that it didn't meet your needs as you hoped it would've and wish to try something different.)

Honest question; I'm just curious if your principle applies only to knives or do you consider it universal across all transactions?
It applies universally. Before making a purchase of any kind I do my research and lots of it.

One of my professional duties is as purchaser for my company and clients.

If something is defective it gets returned. If something fails to function properly it gets returned.

Lord knows I have bought enough produce from Walmart that went bad immediately, sure I could return it. Do I? no kind of expect it so only buy what can be used swiftly.

Knives are a bit hard to tell if you are going to like or not let alone over the long run because they have to be purchased on line by the majority of us. I have purchased many I wanted to explore only to find out they got zero pocket time.

When this happens they are sold on eBay as used with detailed photos.

When this happens with difficult to ship or items that are just not worth it I give them away or like I did with a huge book collection take them to goodwill etc...

Yes I have even given away Spyderco knives that just were not something I liked. Have done so with people on this forum which some can confirm if they choose, when I could have easily retuned the knife.

It is interesting though how Walmart intentionally created the pretty much return anything for any reason policy which wiped out so many small business operators and competitors. Heck of a shrewd move on their part and I am certain figured into their business model.

After all how many really want to be in a Walmart return line out of all their customers?

Pretty small number I am guessing.

When it comes to knives and yes even Walmart I think but have no proof, this behavior is partly responsible for higher pricing to cover this activity.

Is it moral when the retailer sets the stage establishes the rules?

Well yes. I do not intentionally buy more than one knife with the idea to cherry pick and return.

I primarily buy Spyderco and have often purchased backups like I am considering doing with the Smock I just received. With Spyderco cherry picking does not make sense. I have never had one of the same model be any different.

Right now I have a Buck in for warranty work, bought it new could see big gaps of daylight through the back lock blade was not centered and action in the pivot gritty as in unfinished.

The knife is one of 500 made unique and I love the model so warranty work instead of return.
I see what you are saying, and I agree that "cherry picking" (i.e., buying multiple knives just to pick the best one) is ethically questionable. However I don't think that is what the OP was doing. (I am open to correction on this OP)

No matter how much research you do, no matter how many YouTube videos you watch, ultimately, you will never know exactly how the knife feels until you get it in hand. And sometimes, despite all your research, it just isn't the right fit. This isn't cherry picking.

In the above case, which is, I believe, what Wartstein was talking about, as long as it is in keeping with the retailer's return policy, there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with returning an item whatsoever. In this case, the retailers absolutely do make the rules. It's their return policy; they are at perfect liberty to make it as they wish; if they consider "not liking it" a valid reason for returning, then it is a valid reason for returning.

Again, Wartstein, feel free to correct me if my understanding of your scenario is incorrect.
Yep we’re on the same page and yes realize the OP was not cherry picking.

Some others have made some great points here. In order to simplify my stance, I say work within the return guidelines of your seller, if they permit buyers remorse returns because they accept it is part of their business model selling from pictures on the internet something that needs to be in hand to know if you are keeping them fine.

Cherry picking and returning used or abused items not cool, dealers / retailers should never sell a returned item as new either.

Sure a little opening and closing and some paper cutting is fine will not even impact a spyderco,

Receiving a dirty, chipped or scratched blade with war marks in the pivot as I have from some on eBay playing as new is not cool but I can make it work.

Assumed royal doing eBay, but not one I would tolerate from a dealer.

I have never received a used or returned knife from Amazon either but I always look at the sellers records and avoid those with too many bad scores.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 am

Spook410 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:00 pm
You cannot dispute that returning something merely on preference drives prices up. A business has to pay for processing those returns and that cost gets passed along. So those that do this are, in fact, impacting the rest of us. And regardless of all the rationales, I find it to be an unsavory practice and wish vendors would impose an appropriate restocking fee.
Thanks for your reply and the interesting and positive discussion!

Again, no offense, but I find your opinion a bit short sighted: Making very occasionally use of a business practice, the existence of which, ENHANCES the business of online-retailers and leads to more knives being sold does not drive prices up imho if you look at the broader picture.

When online-stores began to exist, sure they had to think of an alternative / equivalent for/to the possibility brick and mortar stores offer, where you can have a look at items and maybe briefly hold them before you decide if you want to buy. This was just the way it is, and part of "shopping".

The alternative to that with online-retailers: Return policy! Withou that LESS people would buy online, LESS knives would be kept and sold. LESS money would be made and prices would go UP!!

Let me put it this way (and I know it is a bit of an provoking example, but may show what I am talking about):
You go to a physicall store to buy a new pant. Sure the store has a priori the option that you can try, if a certain pant fits, pays sales persons to maybe hang up pants again that customers tried and did not buy and so on. It is part of their SERVICE, and without the option to try on a pant much less persons would buy there.
Now: You go to that store, try on a pant, and it does not fit at all.
Would you still buy it and go home with a pant you barely can wear, just so the store does not have costs for sales persons to hang up and store the pant that does not fit you? And to "not impact the rest of customers"??

That being said: I am totally PRO that customers have to pay the return shipping plus a little fee or someting

(Again: I feel the urge to make clear: When it comes to ordering knives online, I myself ym not sure what is "right" to me 100%, otherwise I would not have started this thread! And I´d NEVER order a knife just to have a look at it, and more or less already planning to send it back! It is really just a "last ditch option" in the back of my mind, that makes me KEEP and buy more knives in the end than I would without that option. And I made use of it one single time in my life, and that to get another knife instead from the same store)
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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:18 am

Tucson Tom wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:25 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 am

I begin to wonder if there are really maybe even slight "cultural differences"? Where I live, literally and absolutely no one I know would have any problems whatsoever to return (unused!) items to an online store. It is just not an issue at all... Any person I´d ask here if it is ok to return an unused item / knife would rather be surprised by that question, cause it is just how everybody does,cause it is part of the deal and one actually PAYS for the opportunity to return items, and partly BECAUSE of that opportunity people order from online retailers and make their businesses thrive...
This is interesting and thought provoking. You have my mind looking at things in a different way, which is always wonderful.

There are many sorts of culture contrasts. You are describing Europe vs USA. Another is right here, the older generation vs the younger.

I am an older fellow, as I wager many on this list are, and my ideas about what are right and wrong in this area were formed in the era before there were online sales, and before retail stores offered no questions asked return policies. I could do the usual knee jerk thing and complain about the decline in morals of the younger generation.

Instead though, I am turning around and asking myself if I am out of step with the times. I should talk with my son who handles mail order sales where he works. Maybe in this new internet age, it is acceptable and normal to shop online in this way (buy things and return them if you don't like them). Maybe the retailers actually think this way themselves and expect this and it is part of their business plan. They spell it all out in their return policy. Maybe they expect people to shop in this way.

Even if so, I don't think I would ever be able to embrace this way of buying things (ordering something up front, knowing I may return it if I just don't like it). But I am looking at this in a new light. If the return policy says they accept returns in some time window for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all, returning something you just don't like cannot be viewed as a moral violation.
Tom, thanks for your very positive and constructive reply!! And that you have such an open mind, so it is great and rewarding to have a discussion with you (and most others who replied here or generally most others on this fine forum!! :) )

I am not exactly young anymore too, turned 50 this October.
An I too would not (I may quote you) "order something up front, knowing I may return it if I just don't like it". "Just don´t like it" is not enough reason.
It is really just a last safety net in the back of my mind before I spend my money (and though I am totally happy with what life gave to me, money is not among the things I have a lot of... ;) ), should the knife not "fit" at all. And concerning the one knife I ever returned (or any knife Iwould return): If you received it as the next person, you could never tell that I had it before you.

And what many seemto forget here: IF you order from a retailer who has such an return policy (and I am not aware of one in Europe who has not) and get a knife you think has been used before: You can return it also!

I think if a retailer offers such an return policy, it is on THEM to check returned items, and make sure they only send out really unused, new ones. If they fail in that: You can send a "used" knife back as anybody else can.

And for "cultural differences": Really, where I live, literally NO one, not even the most honest, correct, "ethical-over-the-top" person would have any problem whatsoever sending back unused items to an online retailer. That MIGHT be due to a cultural difference or a different historical and sociological background, I don´t know...
The "gun law" example is not really fitting, but very catchy on the other hand: Where I live, everbody would say: Of COURSE a civilian does not and should not carry a gun; in the US, with in that regard very different historical and sociological background, that is seen VERY differently.
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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:40 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm
Double post
Last edited by Wartstein on Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby standy99 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:49 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm

dealers / retailers should never sell a returned item as new either.
That opens a whole different kettle of fish, some stores are not licensed to sell used goods, it pushes prices up more if the retailer looses money.
The more it happened the less likely anyone would offer free returns.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:58 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:57 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:18 pm
Yep we’re on the same page and yes realize the OP was not cherry picking.

Some others have made some great points here. In order to simplify my stance, I say work within the return guidelines of your seller, if they permit buyers remorse returns because they accept it is part of their business model selling from pictures on the internet something that needs to be in hand to know if you are keeping them fine.

Cherry picking and returning used or abused items not cool, dealers / retailers should never sell a returned item as new either.

Sure a little opening and closing and some paper cutting is fine will not even impact a spyderco,

Receiving a dirty, chipped or scratched blade with war marks in the pivot as I have from some on eBay playing as new is not cool but I can make it work.

Assumed royal doing eBay, but not one I would tolerate from a dealer.

I have never received a used or returned knife from Amazon either but I always look at the sellers records and avoid those with too many bad scores.
Honestly, paper cutting would be a no go for me, resp. I would always keep a knife after having made even just one cut into paper, even if I would literally hate that knife... that(cutting) is something you would and could also not do in a physical store, while just briefly holding the knife would be ok there.

I personally would also (as you and I said before) never, ever "cherry pick" between several items of the same model or several different models

But still, here is a provoking scenario, on which I am not sure what to think about:

For US on this forum it is totally natural to buy and try and often times resell a lot of different Spydercos.
But let´s say you are young, not wealthy at all guy. You are not really into knives, but read a lot about Spyderco, and want to buy ONE good knife for your whole life (or the next 20 years or whatever).
There is NO physical store whatsoever where you could look at and hold Spydercos in hand.
You just can´t judge ergos from what you read, cause you don´t know nothing about folders, you have no experience.
You have saved up over a long period of time for ONE good Spyderco
You narrowed it down, from all the research you did, to let´s say either PM 2 or Manix. You really just can afford one, and that barely, and it is meant to be "your" knife for many, many years.

In THAT case: Would it really be condemnable if this guy ordered both Manix and PM 2, just briefly holds both in hand, keeps the one that he likes more, and returns the other one totally unused?? (I mean, he has no chance to handle the knives in a store, like one could in the times before the internet...)
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:59 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:40 am
Double post
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:17 am

There is no doubt that many internet retail models - particularly fashion - rely upon a generous returns policy so people have the confidence to buy without seeing / trying an item first. The cost of processing returns is built in to the price.

However, some in the U.K. at least, have suffered from customers abusing the policy, for example wearing an item out, or to an event, without removing labels and then trying to return them for a full refund.

This abhorrent behaviour adds even more to the retailers operating costs, although probably still far less than a chain of high street stores.

We’re talking pocket knives here, however, and the “wrong” choice will still work well and precisely as designed, not like an ill fitting 3-piece suit for a job interview (or court appearance!) that will make you look like a clown.

Nevertheless, if a retailer actively encourages multiple purchases in the knowledge that xx% will be returned (for them to inspect, clean, repackage and sell to another customer who will know it may have been through several pairs of hands before), who are we to argue?

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:26 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:58 am
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:57 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm


Yep we’re on the same page and yes realize the OP was not cherry picking.

Some others have made some great points here. In order to simplify my stance, I say work within the return guidelines of your seller, if they permit buyers remorse returns because they accept it is part of their business model selling from pictures on the internet something that needs to be in hand to know if you are keeping them fine.

Cherry picking and returning used or abused items not cool, dealers / retailers should never sell a returned item as new either.

Sure a little opening and closing and some paper cutting is fine will not even impact a spyderco,

Receiving a dirty, chipped or scratched blade with war marks in the pivot as I have from some on eBay playing as new is not cool but I can make it work.

Assumed royal doing eBay, but not one I would tolerate from a dealer.

I have never received a used or returned knife from Amazon either but I always look at the sellers records and avoid those with too many bad scores.
Honestly, paper cutting would be a no go for me, resp. I would always keep a knife after having made even just one cut into paper, even if I would literally hate that knife... that(cutting) is something you would and could also not do in a physical store, while just briefly holding the knife would be ok there.

I personally would also (as you and I said before) never, ever "cherry pick" between several items of the same model or several different models

But still, here is a provoking scenario, on which I am not sure what to think about:

For US on this forum it is totally natural to buy and try and often times resell a lot of different Spydercos.
But let´s say you are young, not wealthy at all guy. You are not really into knives, but read a lot about Spyderco, and want to buy ONE good knife for your whole life (or the next 20 years or whatever).
There is NO physical store whatsoever where you could look at and hold Spydercos in hand.
You just can´t judge ergos from what you read, cause you don´t know nothing about folders, you have no experience.
You have saved up over a long period of time for ONE good Spyderco
You narrowed it down, from all the research you did, to let´s say either PM 2 or Manix. You really just can afford one, and that barely, and it is meant to be "your" knife for many, many years.

In THAT case: Would it really be condemnable if this guy ordered both Manix and PM 2, just briefly holds both in hand, keeps the one that he likes more, and returns the other one totally unused?? (I mean, he has no chance to handle the knives in a store, like one could in the times before the internet...)
Laughing reading this scenario, this is the exact kind of thinking that got me started down the Spyderco Rabbit Hole and sharpening adventure.....


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